Sight-in problems with my .30-30 Win.

[RIchard J. Schneider]

I have a 14 in. Contender barrel that either the scope is moving or the barrel won't shoot my loads. When I first set up this scope and mounts I screwed up by not using lock tight on the screws. Now after I straightened out that problem it has NO grouping what so ever, meaning I hit 3 inches or more in any direction. The mount I used is the T/C solid base with rings. Should I change to a Weaver base with 3 rings?

[KN]

While I absolutely hate the duo-rings from TC, I don't think thats your problem. First make sure the mount is solid. Some TCs have been known to have shallow screw holes and the screws will bottom out before the mount is tight. Make sure thats not happening. If thats OK, Try another scope. You didn't say what scope you were using. Make sure its a quality one. I use std 2-ring setups on a lot more powerful setups than a 30-30. It may look neat but it's not needed. I prefer the weaver base and rings, but a lot of folks like the Burris signiture rings.   KN

[jamie]

On the left hand side of the rings are small indents , 1 for the front and 2 for the rear.  Make sure the top part of the rings are on the matching one.

[hunt4570]

While I absolutely hate the duo-rings from TC, I don't think thats your problem. First make sure the mount is solid. Some TCs have been known to have shallow screw holes and the screws will bottom out before the mount is tight. Make sure thats not happening. If thats OK, Try another scope. You didn't say what scope you were using. Make sure its a quality one. I use std 2-ring setups on a lot more powerful setups than a 30-30. It may look neat but it's not needed. I prefer the weaver base and rings, but a lot of folks like the Burris signiture rings.   KN

 Why do you hate the duo rings? I like them,simple & strong.I agree with the screws bottoming out,screw one down at a time and see if the rings are tight for each screw.I had grouping problems and freefloating the bbl tightened the groups to quarter size at 100yds.What are you using for a rest?SGB

[markc]

it may be your loads, and not the scope.  Have you shot those loads out of the same barrell with success in the past?
markc

[Bullseye]

I totally agree with the comments about making sure the mount screws are not bottoming out, I have had this happen before.  There is nothing wrong with the Duo-Ring mounts, I have had a few on hard kickers for years with no problems although I am currently buying Leopold DD for my Contenders.  I would switch the scope with a different one first and rule that possibility out.

My 30-30 was giving me similiar problems this summer and I did all the things mentioned above to rule out scope and mount problems.  Finally sent the barrel to T/C and they said the locking lugs were too long and the barrel was not locking up tight.  It is a shooter now.  Rule out all your possiblities and then send it back if it still will not shoot.

Good luck.

[KN]

I hate the duo-rings because it gives you no room for fore aft adjustment. Never seems to be the right hight either. Just a personal thing. I will agree that they should be really stout mounts.  KN

[RIchard J. Schneider]

This will answer some of your questions.

kn; The scope is a TC 2.5-7X.

jamie; I did match the rings correctly but I have the marks on the right. Two slashes to the front and one to the rear. Will this cause a problem even if they are tight.

markc; I had shot these loads before with this barrel and had better results when the mount screws came loose because I didn't use lock tight.

bullseye; One thing is diferent from past sight-ins and that is the sling swivels. The swivel on the forearm may be changing the way the forearm seats on the barrel.

I did use sand bags to sight-in. The bullet is A Nosler 125 grain balistic tip boattail in front of 29.5 grains of IMR 4198.

This is only the third time I had this barrel to the range. The first time I found that the base came loose as mentioned. The second to try some loads a friend gave me, And the third was Sunday when I couldn't put 2 bullets with-in 3 inches of one another. I will check the base screws and turn the base 180 deg... Tell me what you think with the answer to your questions.

[hunt4570]

I dont think you need to turn base 180 just match ring caps to base,| to |....|| to ||.SGB

[Bug]

I know, it sounds dumb. But, did you check to make sure that the sling swivel stud, on the forearm isn't contacting the barrel? Forend fit can make a REAL big difference in accuracy. You might try the washer fix, or Graybeard's tape trick. Either way, it will eliminate one more possibility.
  FWIW, I have forends dedicated to each barrel, and they have all been glass bedded. Just my solution, there are many others. I also bed the bases, regardless of brand, with a small amount of JB Weld. If I need to remove them, a touch of heat is all that is required. With Loctite on the correct length screws, and JB Weld bedding, it's needless to say, I DON'T have problems with loose bases!>>>>>>>>>>>Bug.

[Robert]

GOD BLESS

[jamie]

Richard,
I could have sworn mine had 1 dent in front and 2 in rear, maybe it is on backwards or maybe I am just not as smart as I think I am (distinct possiblity).

Anyone else that can check their duo mounts, mine are in S.C. and I am in Germany.

[RIchard J. Schneider]

Bug
Along with taking the scope and mount off and redoing them, just to make sure everything was tight and the base screws didn't bottom out, I removed the sling swivels. The more I think about it the more I feel this is the problem.

jamie
Don't worry about it. I probably didn't pay attention to that part of the instructions. Although, I did turn them around. Thanks.

I plan on going to the range tomorrow and try again.

[BCB]

RIchard J. Schneider,

I have had nearly a dozen Contender barrels—all new ones.  One thing that I have noticed is the fact that they all shot very good groups for the 1st half-dozen of so groups that I shot with them.  THEN ACCURACY WENT FAR, FAR AWAY!!!  I have discovered that the T/C barrels are very rough and fouling can and usually is a problem until the bore smoothes out.  Ball powders seem to also add a sheen to the barrel which is difficult to remove.  I always thoroughly clean my barrels with Sweet’s 7.62 and J&B Bore Cleaner many times during the first 100 rounds or so.  Then just normal cleaning.  I have a .233 Remington barrel that took between 300 and 400 rounds until it finally smoothed out.  I had nearly given up hope for it and all of a sudden, it started shooting sub-M.O.A. groups out to 200 yards from a solid bench rest.  So, if your optic system is solid, you might want to try a very thorough cleaning.  Who knows?  Good-luck…BCB

[KYODE]

thats a good point bcb. even a clean looking barrel can be copper fouled. you may need to remove the copper fouling with a solvent that does that. i use shooters choice.

[RIchard J. Schneider]

Well, I just got back from the range. Although I removed the scope and reset it. the problem had to be the sling swivel. It grouped down to 1.5 inches at 100 yards with 2 touching and one thrown. I'll take the credit for the one thrown to my lack of experience shooting a scoped hand gun.

BCB and KYODE; I will clean thoroughly as you suggested.

Thanks for all the input.

Now, can someone explain the washer and/or tape set up with the sling swivel.

[Bug]

FWIW,
  I don't use a sling swivel on my contenders. I fully bed every forearm with Brownells' Micro-Bed. Not saying it's the best way, just that it works for me.
  For forend bedding, go here:
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=10125&highlight=washer

For a more complete list, do a search, in this forum only, for "washer", and you will get plenty of hits>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bug.

[RIchard J. Schneider]

Well, I tried the washer system with the sling swivels and sand the fore end so I could slide a dollar bill between it and the barrel. Went to the range this morning to check it out. Is anyone looking for slightly used sling swivels for there Contender? Let me say it wasn't as bad but it has become a pain in the butt. I want to forget about the sling and try the bipod.

[Bug]

Richard,
  I don't know if you noticed, but the machine-screw swivel stud - the kind that takes a roundish, nut-thing on the backside - for most front swivels, is the same thread as the Contender escutcheon. You might want ot get one, and thread the swivel stud into the forend hanger. By using the "nut" as a locknut (turn it up-side-down), you can hang a sling on the forend. I used to cut them off, so the forend got tight when I screwed the stud down with a washer between the stud, and the forend. It sounds complicated, to describe, but it is pretty simple, once you have everything in front of you. Of course, this may be what you have been trying to do, all along!  If so, you see why I just bed my forends, now.
  Anyway, how you going to mount a bipod, without a sling swivel? :eek:
keep at it, man. It IS a learning process.........Bug.

[RIchard J. Schneider]

Bug
I'm not sure I know what you mean about the escutcheon. What is this part for? And how would I get one with the nut your talking about?

The thing about the bipod, I ment shooting sticks.

Let me ask you this. The sling swivels I'm using are from Uncle Mike's. They have spacers that slid over the threaded shaft but it is to big to fit into the screw head hole in the forearm, would this cause a problem?

[Mark Borntrager]

Richard

I had problems with sighting in a gun and like you tried everything to remedy the problem. From working up new powder loads, different bullets, and still couldn't hold a good group at 100yds. The first shot with a cold barrel would put it in the bull with the second just outside and then move to 3in and then 5-6. The problem was the scope! The cross hairs were moving! Make sure you have a good quality scope!

I have a super 14 contender with a 1 1/2X4 Burris scope and shoot, like you a 30-30. Off a bench and bag at 200yds I can hold 3 shot 1in groups. I have worked up a good "Hot" load that works well in my gun. I use 125 gr. Sierra spitzer bullets, 24.2 grs. of H4227 power, and CCI 200 primers. I keep the cases trimed to 2.040 length with a total length of 2.685.

I have taken a 3X4 buck, in the neck at 150yds. Last years buck. a fork X3 point I took was in heavy second growth timber with low branches. The only shot I had was between the eyes at 50 yrd. Both shots dropped these bucks in their tracks! We can apply for doe tags in Oregon as a second tag and sometimes get one! I have taken several does too!  

PS. I love my contender! and I do use a Bi-pod

Mark Borntrager
Oregon

[RIchard J. Schneider]

Mark
I feel that I have a good reload, the problem is when I screw in the sling swivel stud thru the forarm to the barrel. This is when the accuracy suffers severely. With the regular T/C Contender set up I am satisfied with my accuracy. I do know that I have to shoot more often, but work, work around the house and other Outdoor organizations take up my time. I will pledge New Years Eve to not get so cought up in these other organizations and make time for myself. I love to shoot and want to become proficient at handgunning.
Thanks for the information, I will have time to hunt a doe after CHRISTmas. I was concerned about shooting off shooting sticks. Is your bi-pod attached to your Contender?

[Bullseye]

I put my swivel in a hole drilled into the forearm with a counterbored hole on the inside for a nut.  I have never seen this affect accuracy.