Author Topic: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada  (Read 1703 times)

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Offline Dand

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CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« on: October 18, 2010, 09:09:19 PM »
I just got my Sept / Oct Firearms Coalition Knox Report in the mail. On the center front page they have an article about a CCW permitee gunned down by police in or near a Nevada Costco.

I can't find their online version.

First I've heard of it but no doubt it got a lot of play at the time.  From what the Knox report says, it once again supports the point often made here that concealed should be ABSOLUTELY CONCEALED at all times.

This sure was an unfortunate event.
Any readers here know more about it?

I'd like to learn more.




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Offline 1sourdough

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010, 07:12:43 AM »
 Lots of stuff on the web about it. Looks a little fishy but maybe it will clear up in the investigation, maybe not. I guess it reminds one to stay concealed when legally carrying. I'm not even sure that's how it started but it's sounds like it was 'a man with a gun' call. The cops come & any wrong move can lead to some shooting.
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 12:32:24 PM »
Kinda strange for an open carry state. I used to grocery shop with a gun on my hip in plain view. Never even got any funny looks.

Offline mrussel

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 06:30:25 PM »
Kinda strange for an open carry state. I used to grocery shop with a gun on my hip in plain view. Never even got any funny looks.

 I would certainly like to know the details. While its perfectly possible for a police officer to act recklessly and irresponsibly, police are NOT allowed to shoot someone just becuase they HAVE a gun. Ive been pulled over here in Utah while carrying and I simply rolled down the window and placed both hands on the steering wheel and waited for the officer to come up to the passenger side window. I then informed him that I have a carry permit and am carrying a concealed weapon. He asked me where it was and I told him. He then explained that he was going to reach in and take my gun out of its holster and place it on top of the car while he wrote me the ticket and that I should just keep my hands on the wheel. He took my gun out,placed it on top of the car,and when we were done he gave me my gun back and I went about my business.

Offline Range Rider

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 06:38:39 PM »
I have not heard about this one.  Nevada does have some funky gun laws.  The City of North Las Vegas bans the carrying of fire arms as does Boulder City Nevada. It makes no difference if you hava a permit or not.  They have canceled the right of Utah citizens to carry in thier state. You must be very careful with firearms in your car or truck while crossing this state.  Nevada is gettin more like their sister state of California. 

RR
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Offline mrussel

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2010, 07:42:45 PM »
I have not heard about this one.  Nevada does have some funky gun laws.  The City of North Las Vegas bans the carrying of fire arms as does Boulder City Nevada. It makes no difference if you hava a permit or not.  They have canceled the right of Utah citizens to carry in thier state. You must be very careful with firearms in your car or truck while crossing this state.  Nevada is gettin more like their sister state of California.  

RR

 I take it Nevada does not have a pre-emption law then?

 I wouldn't say they have canceled the right of Utah citizens to carry. Its a states right to decide which permits they honor. Utah has been having some problems becuase they have very minimal requirements. While I would prefer my permit be recognized there,its a states right to decide whether or not to accept the permits. The only things I can see changing it are a national reciprocity law or a ruling by the supreme court that we all have the RIGHT to carry concealed,which I dont see happening any time soon. Actually In my lay persons understanding of the constitution,I'm not sure that the federal government has the power to enact national reciprocity of carry permits exclusive of the 2nd amendment. Its a stretch to consider carrying a weapon to fall under the definition of "commerce between the several states". The second amendment now allows it as the courts have ruled that we have a right to be armed to protect ourselves but that laws that regulate what how and when you can carry are permissible. Presumably that allows federal and state laws on for instance assault weapons and machine guns to stay in force,however the flip side of may well be that it gives the federal government the right to say that you cant walk down the street with a full automatic AK47 (they are actually silent on this but make it very difficult to actually buy one) but the argument could be made that it also gives the federal government the right to say you CAN walk down the street with one.

I'm actually split on the issue of national reciprocity. While I think all states should issue permits to any sane and law abiding citizen that wants one,I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that for instance Arizona or Alaska that have no requirements to even have a permit to carry could decide to issue blank permits for 5 dollars with an official number,where you just fill in your name, and every other state would be REQUIRED to accept it in their state as if it were their own. Some states have decided to have a training requirement. I felt that the 4 hours I had to sit through were actually time well spent. We learned the basics of what were expected of us. Thats what I feel the requirements for a carry permit should be about. I feel the important thing a class needs to teach is when and where it is acceptable to use your weapon. The risk that a permit holder will be incompetent with his weapon and injure people around him is minimal. I cant recall ever reading a story about someone who was justifiably using a weapon in self defense accidentally shooting a by stander. I'm sure it happens,but if it happened A LOT we would hear about it every single time. "Man shoots child while attempting to fend off robber" is a "great" headline. Much better in fact than "man fends off robber with handgun",at least as far as the news papers are concerned. Most of the stories are something like "Man shoots at fleeing robber as he jumps into car and kills girlfriend/getaway drivers infant son in back seat"

 In fact,I think the academic understanding of how to use your gun,in other words, muzzle control and other safe gun handling techniques,knowing whats behind your target and knowing when its legally acceptable to draw your weapon or discharge it solve most of the problems and are far more effective than requiring that someone can get a 6" group at 10 yards.

 My feeling is any sort of national reciprocity of carry permits should have stipulations attached. For instance,it seems to me that if a state were to be required to recognize another states permit,it should only be for permits issued by a state to its own residence. In other words,what right does Florida have to tell Colorado that a Utah resident can carry a gun. Second it should be on a temporary basis. If I'm driving to Ohio,from Utah,maybe it makes sense for me to carry my gun with me without having to stop at every border and figure out whether my permit is valid on the other side. On the other hand,if I move to Colorado and am no longer a Utah resident,what right does Utah have to tell me that I can carry a gun just becuase I USED to be a resident. I should have to get a Colorado permit. In fact,in that case,the 2nd amendment does NOT apply. Utah has no jurisdiction over that matter. Colorado has a responsibility to adhere to the 2nd amendment and the federal government has the jurisdiction to force them to do it,but Utah has no standing in the matter if I'm no longer a resident. 

Ideally the supreme court would rule that just as you have a right to have a handgun in your home for self defense,that right extends to your person no matter where you are. All states would be required to go shall issue or permit-less carry and citizens would be allowed to carry guns while traveling according to the laws of the states they are traveling in so long as it was legal for them to carry in their home states. There would be a few lawsuits hammering out the limits. (under what circumstances can you deny permits for instance,if your state requires you to list a justification,and you write on the application in green crayon "I need a concealed gun because the employees at the "Baby Gap" in the mall are really disciples of Satan who are beaming messages into my head and I need this "license to kill" so I can shoot them" you probably should not be given a permit. I'm not saying they SHOULD ask for a justification,just that if they DO and you are clearly crazy,you should not get a permit. Yes,your probably going to carry it anyway,but still.)

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Offline rawhidekid

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2010, 11:39:45 PM »
The COSTCO'S here in Tucson have a sign at the door clearly stating no firearms allowed.  That said I have carried in there without insodent.  If he was acting as per the article,  it had nothing to do with concealed carry, infact he wasn't carring concealed.  Always confusing when supposedly witness with different accounts.   Rawhidekid  
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Offline Brett

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 03:12:51 AM »
Does appear to be some conflicting stories from what I read.  Hopefully there is video tape that will clear up the questions.  If he was acting "erratically and tearing up products" as mentioned in the first article it would appear he was looking for trouble.  Suicide by cop possibly?   Even a "good shooting" is a tragedy.  My prayers go out to the man's family and to the officers involved.  Justified or not, they have have to live with the fact that they took another man's life for the rest of their lives.   
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: CCW Permitee shot by police in Nevada
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2010, 07:26:31 AM »
Nevada can't seem to get it straight. Anyone can carry openly, with correct exeptions noted earlier, without any training etc. However if you are in a profession that requires open carry certain classes must be taken regarding firearms training.