Fire forming factory loaded ammo question.

[rdlange]

Per FAQ link, Fred says to lube the cartridge before firing so the case expands full length.  Other sites warn AGAINST lubing cases, which causes excessive pressure.

I have several boxes of 30-30 factory ammo, some of which I would like to shoot to fire form in 30-30 Ackley Imp barrel. 

Confused and seeking advise.

Be Well...

[quickdtoo]

Fire form loads are generally start loads for the parent cartridge if you're shooting bullets, I've lubed 280 cases to fire form for 280 Improved with no problems, but I always form a false shoulder to headspace on.  I've only shot 5 Rem factory 30-30 rounds in my 30-30AI, no lube, 2 of them split the necks, I think it depends on the chamber, if the shoulder is supported, there' won't be a problem.  I only use 375Win brass, use Imperial case lube, run it thru a 35 Rem, 32 Spcl then thru the 30-30 Improved die before I fire form it, have had no problems with it loaded to 60kpsi.

Tim

[moorepower]

For bolt guns, I have always taken a bullet that will touch the lands and used a mid range load to compensate for the added pressure of jamming the bullet in the lands. Tight fit every time.

[NFG]

IF the 30-30AI chamber was cut properly, with the neck within the 30-30AI specs, and the case shoulder is in the right position, the chamber neck isn't too large a diameter and the headspace is held by the case rim, there should be no problems.  You will get a perfectly filled out 30-30AI case as the actual pressure produced by the factory ammo will be less in the slightly larger chamber.  After that you should set the sizer die to just touch the new shoulder so you will be headspacing on the shoulder rather than on the rim.  Lubing the case(I used to use STP to form many wildcats...messy stuff!!!!) allows the case to expand easier.  RCBS case lube worked OK as did light weight oil, especially the synthetic stuff, but now I use Imperial sizing wax also(much easier to use) so you have your choice.

In the case of a  30-30, the case has very thin walls already in the upper third of the length or so, so the brass sticks to the chamber walls much quicker and harder than in other types of cases...using 375 Win brass is a very large step in the right direction.

AND, NOT using factory loaded ammo, but rather doing what Tim did or doing it the same way with 30-30 brass, seating the bullet out into the lands and using a midrange load is the best way to get perfectly formed 30-30AI cases.

As always, getting a nicely filled out and formed case isn't always the actual happening using factory 30-30 ammo, you just have to try a few to see.  If you're lucky things will work out right.

I did quite a few AI conversions over the years, but the 30-30 didn't have enough additional pizzazz for me so I never bothered with it, I liked the 30 Leverpower better... , but if I were to do one today I wouldn't use 30-30 brass.  Today I would opt for one of several better cases like the 30-40 Krag or one of the slightly larger rimmed cases like the 38-55 or 38-72 or would use 375 Win Brass and start at the beginning with the sizing and bullet seating...the "correct way".  You shouldn't have any problems selling or trading 30-30 factory ammo.

You can also use a bullet puller to pull the bullet out about 0.200", then reseat it so it is stuffed into the lands a bit.  This will hold the base back against the bolt face and allow the case to be formed WITHOUT moving backwards.

Luck

[rdlange]

Now that is very interesting.  I'll be seriously considering it and now figure on just saving the factory ammo for my Marlin.  Looks like I need another couple sets of dies to size the 375 cases down.  In the mean time I have the new 243 to work out.   I like to take things slow and get them right first time.

Thanks all for the advise already, and keep in coming.  I'll be having more questions in the future I'm sure.

[NFG]

You might consider using a Redding Type S die and just swap in a different bushings or goto CH4D for a universal bushing die and just size the neck portion just enough to chamber.  Or Lee RGB dies...they're real cheap.

I've just never been a fan of the 30-30AI other than the mechanical aspect of less case stretching and slightly higher pressure, and even those things are questionable depending on how you reload and how your dies fit the chamber.  And the thing about using factory ammo in an emergency doesn't fly with me either.  Way to many arguments to shoot that down. 

Even though I still have a 250 Sav AI I like very much and shoot on a weekly basis, I've only shot one box of factory 250 Savage in it for the brass 40 odd years ago when I built it, then I used 257 Roberts and later 308 Lapua brass because it had a long neck in the chamber and I wanted extra case length for that extra neck length.

Other than the 223 AI??? and 30-30AI, I have no issues with most of the rest of the AI's, even though some of those AI's??? were not around when P.O was doing his thing.  Doesn't matter what I think anyway, if you want a 30-30AI, go for it, it still has it's values.

Lots of ways to get down the road.

Luck

[quickdtoo]

I skipped a couple steps when I tried to recall from memory the 375 to 30-30AI reforming,  I checked my notes, resizing the 375Win brass was trial and error, I wrinkled a few cases in the process, but I ended up running it thru full length RCBS 35 Rem> Lee 338 Federal> Lee 32 Spcl> Redding 30-30AI Trim/body die and finally thru a Hornady 30-30 Imp full length die. I was careful to not push the shoulder back too much until the final sizing in the Hornady die so I could headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim. RCBS or Redding makes a form die, but it costs more than the dies I bought and figured I could use them if I ever load for the 338 Fed and 32spcl, already had the 35 Rem, this process will provide a case that is almost fully formed, just the shoulder is a little rounded, fire formed with 28.5gr IMR3031, hunting loads were with H322. Be aware that my barrel is a modern 4140 Handi barrel, not an older H&R barrel that has the soldered underlug. Accuracy was excellent at nearly 2900fps.

Tim