Author Topic: Tokarev in 22lr?????  (Read 3820 times)

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Offline 1911crazy

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Tokarev in 22lr?????
« on: February 08, 2010, 06:23:48 AM »
Does anyone offer a 22lr conversion kit for the '30 Tokarev yet?  I would like to have a small pistol in 22lr tp plink with.  And i think a '30 tokarev with a 22lr conversion would be awesome.  I would also think about it having a double stack mag too. (capacity+)  Maybe a barrel insert with a softer recoil spring and a 22lr mag.  This would keep the cost down by off setting the barrel inside the orginal tok barrel so the rim fire would work.  The barrel can be a lower off set so the 22 mag would feed too.  You could use a side setscrew parallel to the chamber/bore to hold the barrel wedged inplace too. Or just a new barrel so the orginal slide / bushing can be used either way its ok with me.

I really don't want a 1911 look a like or 1911kit.  I just want a smaller 22lr pistol using a cheap conversion kit.  With all the polish and romanian tok's around i figure someone would think of making this 22lr kit for them.

Offline NRAJOE

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 10:08:00 AM »
Not that I know of but that would be very cool!  8)
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 06:12:54 AM »
With the ammo prices at an all time high I would like to have an extra tokarev with the 22lr kit that would stay that way for ever.  We just need a lighter recoil spring, a 22lr mag and a barrel insert??  I'm surprised that no one has jumped on this idea yet.  It can't get any simpler.....

Offline Mikey

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 02:04:24 AM »
I think the Chinese made the Tok in 22lr for international target work - I'm almost certain the Russians did the same.  I don't think we will ever see any on this side of the pond though. 

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 05:17:50 AM »
Review of my thoughts;
We can make a 22lr barrel to go inside the 7,62x25 tok barrel and offset it so the firing pin will hit the rimfire case lip.  It needs to be off set at the 6 oclock position so the mag will feed at the correct angle. Then we need to rework the extractor too.  Then a softer recoil spring and maybe a softer hammer spring too.

I wish i had my shop with the lathe right now.  I'd buy a blank 22lr barrel and turn it down to fit.

Offline Dakoma

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2010, 07:07:35 PM »
Have you heard of the 22 Reed Express ? he necked down a 30 Tokorev case to take a 22cal bullet and made a barrel that was drop in on the CZ-52 pistol.With heavier bullets it outpreformed the 5.7X28,a group buy might get him started again making barrels.He still makes the brass and sells ammo.Just google 22 Reed Express.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2010, 07:20:04 PM »
I think the Chinese made the Tok in 22lr for international target work - I'm almost certain the Russians did the same.  I don't think we will ever see any on this side of the pond though. 
They made  copy of the Walther target pistol of the 36 olympics.  that is the only 22LR semi I have seen come out of China.

Offline Hank08

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2010, 05:24:24 PM »
Haven't seen a .22 Tok conv. but have seen pictures of a new Tok air pistol, looks just like the real thing.
H08

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2010, 10:48:16 AM »
The way the prices are going on new 22lr ammo it will be cheaper to shoot 7.62x25 surplus ammo.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2010, 11:02:44 AM »
  I could swear I've seen a picture somewhere of a 22lr Tok.  Let me think about it and see if I can figure out where or even if I really saw it.

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2010, 02:34:23 PM »
I just can't see spending $600+ on a 22cal pistol or a 22lr conversion kit on a 1911 or a new 1911 in 22lr.  I really like the CZ kadet in 22lr but it not cost effective to get one at that price.  I wish we had a conversion kit for a tokarev or a cz82.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2010, 05:39:26 PM »
Found it.  The Ruskies made some 22lr Tokarevs, but they went about it in an odd way.  They made a pistol, not sure if it's a conversion or a purpose built gun, that used 22lr in special aluminum sleeves that made the rounds look like 7.62x25.  Here's a link to a page with a picture.  http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1700/1746.htm

 

Offline mrussel

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2010, 10:26:23 PM »
Found it.  The Ruskies made some 22lr Tokarevs, but they went about it in an odd way.  They made a pistol, not sure if it's a conversion or a purpose built gun, that used 22lr in special aluminum sleeves that made the rounds look like 7.62x25.  Here's a link to a page with a picture.  http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1700/1746.htm

 

 That brings up an interesting idea. Make a barrel insert that has the outer diameter of the neck of the 7.62x25 and an inner diameter a little smaller. That will keep the insert form being launched from the gun. If you want it permanent that wont be needed as you could solder the parts together.. It could be made from a unusable or irreparable 22 rifle barrel. It just needs a section good enough to cut off and turn on the lathe to the right dimensions. The insert would be covered in for instance,a couple layers of heat shrink tubing or something similar. You want something soft with a little give,but not much to avoid metal on metal contact of the barrel,but it still has to keep the barrel centered. It has to be a tight fit,but come apart when you need it to. The front of the insert that sticks out past the barrel would be cut down say,1/32 or 1/16 of an inch or so. It would the be threaded and a nut made so that insert would be installed,and the threads would not touch the barrel as it was slit through,then a nut (probably knurled and of a similar diameter to the barrel) would be screwed on to keep it in place. If it comes off,either a pin of some sort or set screw could be added,or just a drop of locktite.

Next,you will need the sleeves. I'm not sure if aluminum or brass would work best. I tend to think brass is a little easier to work,but aluminum is easy too. It would have a neck diameter sized of course to mate with the insert. The hard part would be firing pin. One question is whether a strike to the center of the cartridge would be enough to set it off? I'm thinking not reliably. If that's the case then you have to crush the rim. Another issue is that the cartridge could slide out of the adapter and it might not feed correctly. A way to solve both of these problems might be to make the back of the adapter unscrew. It would carry a little part that was shaped such that when struck in the center,it would crush the rim. It would have to be made out of something brass,and easy to make as it would tend to wear out and need to be replaced often. It might have a spring on it. You would put the cartridge in the adapter, and then screw on the top and load up the magazines. The down side would be that it would be a lot of work to load. Getting the firing pin to strike the right part of the cartridge seems to be the real challenge here.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2010, 04:17:49 AM »
It would be a neat project.

  The thing that keeps me from buying 22 conversions it the Ruger 22 pistol and the 10-22.  I can't spend more than the price of a 10-22 to put a conversion into a rifle or more than a Mk1, 2, or 3 for a pistol conversion.  I know the safety and so on is different than the 'converted' gun, but it's hard to justify more than the price of a gun.... on a conversion kit.

  Now building one for the fun of the build, that's a different matter.

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2010, 07:51:34 AM »
I think an offset replacement barrel so the firing pin lines up with the rimfire case,  a 22lr extractor, a weaker recoil spring and a 22lr double stack mag would do it.  Right now the 1911 in 22lr is $300 and the cz kadet 22lr is $600 I think.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 02:01:35 AM »
Ha!  Found them.  The Russians had two Tokarevs in 22 lr caliber.  One was the Model R-3 in 22 lr, which looks exactly like a TT-33 but in 22 lr caliber and was used for training.  I sort of doubt we will see any of these on this side of the pond.  The other is the Model R-4 which wears a shortened Tokarev slide and about a 6" or slightly longer barrel - it is a bit reminiscent of the Beretta target 22 based on the 1934 style action.  I also doubt we will see any of those on this side of the pond but yes, they were made and these are the two models. 

And, I was wrong about the Chinese having one - they did not make them, apparently, so if the Chinese were using any 22 lr Tokarevs they probably got them from the Russians.  jmtcw.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2010, 01:09:55 AM »
  But wait....There's more!

  Pyramid sells a CO2 powered BB Tokarev.    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?cx=002970863286801882398%3Ajlcminxfwdw&cof=FORID%3A11%3BNB%3A1&q=mp-656k&sa=Search&search_for=mp-656k   For your enjoyment.

  It looks neat and it's in line with the topic, so I posted the link.  I, for one, don't think I'd throw $200 for it.  Food for conversation.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2010, 04:51:18 AM »
 You would need to start with a purpose built barrel with no locking lugs and an offset bore. If you sleeve the original 7.62 bore with a .22 liner the liner walls would only be .039" thick. There would not be enough wall thickness to permit an offset bore, not even if the original bore were 9mm.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Tokarev in 22lr?????
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2010, 08:00:44 AM »
  I think for a conversion you'd be better off making a completely dedicated conversion.

  Mill a slot for the firing pit and make one out of heat treatable sheet metal for the rimfire ignition.  Replace the barel, like Joe said, with one that had no lucking lugs.  Make magazines by putting a single stack 22lr mag inside the Tokarev mag bodies.  Elector, extractors, all that would have to be addressed.  Then it would just take a million hours of fitting and fumbling to get it to feed and cycle.  All doable. Could it be done in a way that would make sense from the time vs money perspective?  Probably not, but if this is a hobby it doesn't really matter if you are having fun.

  Who knows, GSG may have one in the works that would make all this a moot point.