EOTWAWKI brewing

[bilmac]

In trying to plan ahead for real bad times I have planted quite a few fruit trees and berry bushes. I plan on processing the fruits myself as they ripen. One idea I am exploring is juicing the fruit and then fermenting it a minimal amount to make just enough alcohol to preserve the product. I'm thinking that by just putting the juice in bottles and then sealing them, the fermentation will stop itself when the CO2 gets high enough and the end product will be a kind of champaign. I know nothing about the art of brewing but a little of the science. So what am I missing? I'm not interested in the alcohol, just as healthy drink that will keep.

[SHOOTALL]

I don't brew or drink but it sounds like what folks have done for 1000's of years . Good luck.

[AtlLaw]

Lots of fun!  I keep meaning to start doing it again and try brewing beer also...

You do a primary fermentation firstrack the raw product a few times to get rid of the dead yeasty-beastys, then bottle when the al-key-hol level gets high enough to kill all the yeast and stop fermentation.

Then you can do a second fermentation in the bottle to get sparkling wine.

This is not even enough to call an outline, but there's plenty of how-too information out there.  I haven't done it in many years...    ever since my still got to be takin up so much of my time... 

[bilmac]

Momma used to make root beer using the directions on the Hires root beer extract package. Water, sugar, extract, and bread yeast, sealed up in mason jars. They never mentioned alcohol in the instructions it was just a carbonated drink according to them, but there had to be some in there. Anyhow she never had any qualms giving it to us kids, and I can't ever remember getting a buzz from it. This is kind of what I have in mind. For EOTWAWKI purposes I would rather not have to depend on a bought sugar supply.

[mcwoodduck]

Either preserves or dehydrate.  Dried like raisons or prunes and add water later when you want to use them.  Store in Mason Jars or vacume seal the dried fruit for longer storage.
Canning with out the added sugar may work too but you will need to look at canning books.
I was thinking that you would make beer or wine from the fruit but then read more later. 

[bilmac]

No I am thinking about making something like real weak champaign. Just enough alcohol to preserve the juice. If you seal the stuff up when you bottle it the first time the CO2 should build up pressure and shut off the fermentation. I may be having a pipe dream, since I haven't heard of anyone doing such a thing. Maybe I'll just have to start experimenting.

[teamnelson]

A real pale ale is what they used to make to preserve fresh water on cross atlantic journeys, but that's with grains. With fruit, I think the value is in the fiber,sugar & vitamins; with brewing you'd lose the fiber, but probably not a lot of the vitamins. With dehydrating you'd keep the fiber, maybe a little of the vitamins, but you lose the fluid too which may be useful. I'm guessing sugar would be present either way?

I think even if you just brewed a concentrate that you could reconstitute with water ... my plan includes a biosand filter which is good for everything but the taste. Mix in some of that concentrate with bsf filtered water and you'd get a healthy drink. Or with stored water/rainwater cachement.

[bilmac]

I've been looking at the biosand filter too. I can't put it into operation yet because we don't live out where we may have to take refuge. The way I understand it is that it has to be used frequently to keep the little critters working for you. If we have to move out there it will be one of the first things I will do.

[teamnelson]

Made mine in a 5 gal bucket so I can seal it up to move it. It takes 2 weeks to brew the critters anyway.

[bilmac]

I thought they had to be deeper than that. Have you used it? Had the water tested? Looks like they have a lot of limitations, like you say, it takes 2 weeks to get them brewing, they have to be used regularly, even a 5 gal bucket is big and heavy. On the plus side they are low tech, no need to have stockpiles of materials or supplies. Low tech is my style.

[teamnelson]

We were missionaries in Africa, I found size only factors volume processed. A 5 gal size can keep a family of 4 in all the clean water they'll ever use drinking, cooking, cleaning. Haven't tested, but the model delivers regularly tests at 99+. I plan on using rainwater so that reduces bacterial input and keeps your schazenfrude (?) longer. Cap the outflow, keep it wet, replace the dissapator with a lid, and it's heavy but you can tote it.

A fruit concentrate would be awesome for flavor though.

[bilmac]

Man, Mr Nelson you have some pretty impressive credentials. I am always careful to make sure that young soldiers know that I appreciate their sacrifice of giving up important time away from their families to serve the nation, but sometimes I forget when I encounter older guys. I assume you were/are a Chaplin and a missionary too. You are going to have a pile of crowns to throw.

I read a book by a Chaplin in the Gulf War. I can't remember the name and I gave it to a soldier. He had a whole lot of a different kind of war stories to tell. I bet you do too. I would think that these are the kind of folks who would like to hear what you experienced. Could you consider telling. I know I don't talk about Nam, because no one asks, and so I assume no one is interested, but I'm asking. How about starting a new thread instead of hiding it here.

[teamnelson]

bilmac, appreciate the kind words! I count my blessings for sure.

[Cornbelt]

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Kitchen___Juice_and_Beverage_Making_____x22_Homebrew____Soda_Pop___HBSPX?Args=&from_search=1 x22         This is a link on yeast that produces low alcohol and lots of fizz.  Your potential alcohol content will be determined by sugar content, since yeast eats the sugar and gives off carbon dioxide. But some sugars (like birch) won't ferment at all. It won't let bread rise either, though it will sweeten what you put it in. (They have crown caps too.)

[Cornbelt]

The above link didn't exactly work, but it should get you in the vacinity.

[bilmac]

Thanks Cornbelt, no end to the amount of help you can find here.

[bilmac]

I ran an experiment. Some Walmart grape juice in a plastic Coke bottle and just a little bread yeast and sealed er up and went away for a couple days. I think I got back just in the nick of time. I had left just a 1/2" of headspace in the bottle when I filled it. Now the bottle was hard as a rock and there was about 2" of headspace. I accused the wife of letting it leak and then resealing it, but no she hadn't touched it. Then I realized that most of the coke bottle curve had been squeezed out, even the plastic cap was bulged.

I cracked the top (over the sink) and it foamed and foamed until I finally figured I had better save some foam cause that might be all I ever got from that bottle. When it finally stopped, I had about 1/2 a bottle of very carbonated juice.

I liked the taste, probably because that yeasty taste was part of my childhood memories of homemade root beer. Folks like home made bread, partly because of the remainder of the yeasty taste, right. Wife didn't like it.

I think if I hadn't looked in on it when I did, I would have made a juice bomb. The wife would have had me cleaning grape juice from every surface of the kitchen. Future experiments will be inside a strong bucket with a good but vented lid.

I can see now why champaign is vented while it ferments and then sugar is added and it is refermented to add the carbonation like Atlaw says. That would allow it to make enough alcohol to be significant, and would allow the amount of CO2 to be controlled. I know I could find lots of instruction on how to do that. My objective though is to preserve the juice. The vitamines, and as much of the sugar as possible. Sugar and vitamines may be valuable someday in bad times, alcohol just gets people in trouble.

[AtlLaw]

a strong bucket with a good but vented lid.

Hey bil!  Sounds like you were about one hungry yeast critter away from a juicy mess!   

You don't really need a strong bucket.  I used to use the glass carboys that they delivered water in years ago.  I 'spose the plastic ones they got nowadays would work fine.  Actually a pail or garbage can is fine.  Whatever size you want, as long as it has a good tight fitting lid.   

Also get a hydrometer so you can measure the specific gravety of the must and control the alcohol content.

Team that up with a little device, can't remember what they are called right now, clear plastic or glass, some water in it to act as an air seal, lets the CD out and keeps the air from coming in.  Air is your enemy at that stage!  It's full of wild yeast!  Believe me, it is NOT noble rot!   

You should get one of those little 1 gallon wine making kits.  If they still make them.  Cheap, has everything you need, a great learning tool.  Then you start bottleing the stuff, building wine cellers, experimenting with aging, design your own labels...(Chateau Dick)    Don't ask me how I know...    one of the reasons the 70's were a blur... 

[bilmac]

I was figuring on putting my one experimental bottle of brew in a bucket so if it exploded the mess would be contained. I know I am going to need a hydrometer if I am going to do anything scientific, I hope I can find one locally.

Were you a helicopter driver? I was in the 1st Cav. in Viet Nam. I kept my feet on the ground, sitting up in the air looked like the helicopter guys were just big ol targets to me, but we loved those guys. Brought us our beans and bullets and carried us to the doc if we got an ouwie.

[AtlLaw]

Welcome home brother!   

[Cornbelt]

You can make a cheap air lock with a one hole cork, a vinyl tube to fit, and the other end goes in a container of water.
  If you just want enough alcohol to preserve your juice, you can pasturize it and add a capful fo everclear. (Do they still make that stuff?) Typical wine recipies use campden tablets (sodium sulfate, I think). That kills all the wild yeast and other undesireables so you don't have to pasturize. There is also a stabilizer to stop fermentation, but if the alcohol is added without yeast, it may accomplish what you want it to without going through the whole fermentation gamut. If left to itself, the alcohol will either eat all the sugar before fermentation stops, or it will keep fermenting till the alcohol gets around 18%, at which point the alcohol kills the yeast. With a hydrometer, you can figure out ahead of time when to remove the airlock and seal the bottles to get the fizz without risking busted bottles, but only if you use the right bottles. Plastic 2 liters are supposed to be able to hold 200# pressure. For how long, I don't know. Culligan used to sell the plastic 5 gal. jugs for the price of a deposit.

[bilmac]

I'll have to look into those campden tablets. Maybe that's all I would have to do. Sort of like pasturization without the heat. Heck maybe all I have to do is pasturize my juice and seal it up in clean bottles. I was thinking that the process would be hard on the vitamins in the juice, but homemade jellys and Jams are made with lots of heat and I think they are supposed to still be full of vitamins. That way I could keep all of the sugar in the juice instead of feeding some of it to the yeasty beasties.

 Nothing like talking out a problem to identify the best option. My dad and I used to be good at talking through something until we reached a good solution, I miss not having him around for that.

[bilmac]

Yup I think that is what I am finding out with my Walmart grape juice experiment, the sugar is almost gone, the juice is a little sour tasting. My objective is to preserve as much sugar as possible and still keep the juice from going bad.

[steg]

Try This recipe

1 can of frozen grape juice 12 oz any brand of juice,

1 single packet of yeast


3 1/2 cups of sugar ( you can use less in your next batch, this will make a sweet wine, sort of like a Mogen David grape wine,

Put all the ingredients in a gallon jug, plus a quart or so of hot water to dissolve the sugar, fill the jug with water about 2/3rds full of water, at this time if the mixture feels cool enough to add the Yeast do it now or wait until it's cool enough to do it, add the air lock described by another member above, till the 1st work is over this work is very active and it will push some of the ingredients out of the jug, after that work is over you can add water to fill the gallon properly. Replace the air lock. Try and keep it in a cool place while it is fermenting, or the yeast will die off too soon, the entire process takes a little more than a month, the less sugar you use the longer it will take (I know this sounds crazy but thats the way it works) after it is finished siphon the wine off the dreggs and enjoy.................................steg

[doc623]

First let me say there has been a lot of good basic info given here.
If you want to preserve the sweetness; there is another way to accomplish this.
First a word of caution - no not ever use glass bottles with screw caps.
Now back to your basic question. Do the fermentation thru the various stages.
When the CO is no longer coming off your container - personally don't like plastic anything for fermentation - the yeast fermentation is done. Rack the liquid off the leavings. Add a stabilizer to the liquid. Then you can sweeten to taste without fermentation starting again and do not have the danger of pressure build up.
There is a secondary bacterialogical (sp)fermentation that takes place which will smooth the liquid over time, however this does not produce and therefore no pressure.
If there is a mistake to be made in making wine I have probably already made it.

[rokefert]

I am in the process of brewing nearly 50 gallons of wine and I have bunch more to go.... You would be better off preserving the fruit by dehydration or canning rather than in a weak wine.  What your describing as a weak champaigne sounds nice in theory, but in order for it to keep you need 10% or more alcohol.  You either need to make the real deal, or just dry the fruit or can the juice in a pressure cooker.  Wine is by no means hard to make and you can take it to any level you want too from a 2 liter bottle and a balloon, or thousands of dollars in equiptment.  The resources available on the net are endless, but if you are going to make wine do yourself a big favor and DONT DONT DONT use bread yeast.  Brewers yeast is cheap and is made for a reason.  A package of brewing yeast is about a buck and will do wonders.  You can make or purchase your own equiptment, I do a bit of both, and you can go basic with no preservatives and all natural, or you can use additives and preservatives (I do both) the preservatives are cheap and arent the biohazard that people paint them to be.  They were created and used for a reason (TO MAKE BETTER WINE THAT KEEPS BETTER)  The best way to start would be with a gallon batch of welch's (with no preservatives) concentrate sugar and a pack of brewing yeast. sugar and water.  Do it in a gallon jug buy a dollar airlock and rubber bung, or make one, (youll wish you just bought one) and in a few weeks to a month you can make yourself stumble around the house.  Learning to brew will give you a better understanding about a lot of other things like cheesemaking, vinegar, saurkraut and various forms of preservation.  Try it!!!!

[mechanic]

I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I remember my Pop making muskedine wine once, and he did not let it finish the fermentation before putting it in sealed mason jars.  He hid these from Mama behind the deep freeze.  They all began bursting in the middle of the morning with a loud enough report to wake us.  When we discovered it, we had the dining room floor covered in stinking sticky stuff........

[bilmac]

After experimenting with Walmart grape juice all summer, and reading some very helpful posts here I decided to just pasturize my crabapple juice. I had already bought a bottle capper so I dunked beer bottles and lids in a strong solution of chlorox and air dried them. I heated the apple juice to 181 degrees and bottled it. Tastes pretty good, and the brown or green bottles should help preserve the vitamins. Storeing so many small bottles could get to be a problem over time but I hope to have a cellar built in the next year or two.

[blind ear]

The only attempt at wine that I ever made was crab apple wine. When it hit my stomach I was lying in the floof sweating from the pain. 30 something years ago. I hope to try again someday.    eddiegjr