Author Topic: Stupid Question  (Read 618 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rescue_171

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 341
  • Gender: Male
Stupid Question
« on: September 17, 2010, 09:19:06 PM »
I have been reloading for a while now but only with Lee Loaders but I am now getting several dies to use with my press. Most of the dies says you can crimp with the seater die..How do you set it to crimp?

Thanks

Offline tacklebury

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3633
  • Gender: Male
  • Central Michigan
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, 11:59:15 PM »
There is typically a paper instruction included with the die sets, but usually, when you are setting the bullet seating depth, you can set it as follows:
1) screw die in until it touches the mouth of the case and set lock nut
2) back out the top screw
3) place bullet and raise into die
4) adjust top screw until desired seating depth is obtained
5) screw die 1/4 turn further at a time, until desired crimp is obtained

It's important to understand that this is actually an improved taper crimp and too much pressure can buckle your case.  If you are trying to seat above the crimp groove, don't have a crimp groove or need more crimp than you can get without buckling, you might want to consider a factory crimp die.  I use a separate one anyway, because for 15 bucks, you cannot go wrong in my opinion.  The FCD lets you crimp above/below the ferrule without issue and doesn't buckle cases.  With lead bullets, it can deform bullets from too much pressure, or so I'm told, but I haven't had this issue with careful setting in the first place.  ;)  Hope this helps some, but the instructions the dies come with are pretty straight forward or at least my Lee dies were.  8)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline 41 mag

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
    • My Pictures
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2010, 12:53:33 AM »
Depending on the type of bullets your loading a crimp may or may not be necessary.

If your using these in an auto loader, or a magnum type revolver, then yes you might want to use a crimp due to the bulet pull and the slamming action of the auto.

IF your simply using these in a bolt action, 99% of the time your spinning your wheels to add the crimp. You will also want to be sure your using bullets which have a cannalure on them as well. It is not a good thing to crimp slick sided bullets that have no groove as it distorts the jackets as well as pushes pressures up higher in your loads.

This said, to adjust your dies, you run all your bullets through the seater so that the groove is set to the lip of the case mouth. Then you back your seating stem out several turns, and then slowly adjust the die body down until the mouth of the case is crimped into the bullets groove. Your not looking for ti to be swedged into it, simply a nice roll over into it will suffice.

One thing on crimping, if you go there. I have seen way more loads that have been crimped too much than I have seen crimped too little. Most loads that need the crimped bullets, as mentioned above, usually need only enough to roll the leading edge of the case into the bottom portion of the groove. This is what holds the bullets in place under heavy recoil or fast motion. For handgun loads in auto loading pistols your looking for a taper crimp which simply preses the mouth tightly against the sides of the bullet. You have to be careful with these as well as a lot of these type rounds headspace on the case neck and you don't want to smash it so tightly that they miss this tiny shoulder.

If you do however decide you need to crimp your loads, I highly suggest picking up one of the Factory Crimp Dies to use as a stand alone process. This lets you go ahead with your loading as usual and not have to keep adjusting your seating die. Most literature and people will tell you that seating and crimping are best done in separate processes, and this is true, but on some of my revolver loads I have found that they shoot equally as well either way, and I usually seat and crimp in one motion, but there again, I am only putting enough crimp on them to roll the lip over into the bottom edge of the groove and hold the bullet in place along with the neck tension. This gives me the added amount of pull needed to hold them and enough added resistance to keep the slower powders operating at the pressure levels they need to burn.

Hope this helps, and it may or may not be the acceptable practices of everyone, but they have worked for me over the past 35+ years I have been loading. 


Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4548
    • M R HOGS
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2010, 03:54:24 AM »
Full length or neck size the cases.  Sort for length.  If your cases are all varied lengths you will get different results from round to round when the crimping length is set (some may crush, others may not crimp at all).  

Consider:
1.) the caliber of pistol rounds you are loading (tiny calibers are, in general, held tightly in the case without crimping)
2.) rifle magazine type (tubular or box where tubular means crimped; come to think of it, I can't think of a rifle cartridge not crimped)
3.) bullet type (cannelure = grooved = crimped usually)
4.) case shape (straight walled hand gun rounds typically do not require crimping - there are exceptions)
5.) revolver or pistol (revolver rounds not crimped can shift by momentum of recoil = not good!)

Probably other considerations not enumerated.

Offline P.A. Myers

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (65)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1344
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 10:19:45 AM »
The Lee factory crimp die sizes the finished round. I dont use it to crimp. If you do this, all straight-wall rounds will chamber easily.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty -
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense”
 Winston Churchill

Offline 223fan

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 04:27:01 PM »
pm sent
XLI the one to go with.

Offline mdi

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 399
  • Gender: Male
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 09:00:37 AM »
I seat and crimp in two operations using the same die. I back off the seating stem and run an empty case up into the seat/crimp die and screw the die in until i feel it touch the case mouth. Back off 1/2 turn and lock.  Place a bullet in the case mouth and screw down/adjust seating stem to desired depth. Seat all bullets. Back off seating stem and lower die 1/2 turn and adjust the entire die down for desired crimp. I began using this method because I reloaded 90% lead bullets and seating/crimping in same operation gave me lead shaving and occational case buckling. It's a lot faster to do than say...

P.S. The Lee Factory Crimp die is a whole different story (I tossed mine). The FCD for straight walled cases has a carbide sizing ring that sizes/swages the finished round as it crimps. Not desireable for my loading needs. I also believe it is a solution to problems I don't have (chambering issues, excess flare, misadjusted dies, etc).

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 09:37:03 AM »
best way to get good crimps is trim all cases to same length before you start . seat the bullet in one operation and crimp seperate . I like a redding profile crimp . If you crimp and seat at the same time the bullet is being crimped while it is moving - how can this aid accy. ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline GH1

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Gender: Male
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 01:47:50 PM »
I've always believed the only stupid question was the one not asked.
GH1 :)
I owe my life to an organ donor

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Stupid Question
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 05:15:07 AM »
GH1 give it time  ;D
If ya can see it ya can hit it !