Author Topic: Why No 'Double Stack' .22 Magazines??? (Read 4976 times)

whitfang · « **on:** September 07, 2010, 11:49:21 AM »

If gun manufacturers can get 17 rounds of .40, .45, 9mm, etc into a pistol magazine, why can't they use the same double-stack technology on .22 long rifle? Think of it, you could probably get 30 rounds of .22 into a newly-designed, double-stack, standard-length .22 magazine!
Or is there some problem with the .22 cartridge that makes this impossible? Does anybody know?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2010, 11:53:40 AM »

One word RIM .

spruce · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2010, 01:51:54 PM »

Good question.

I'm not sure the rim, in and of itself, would be an insurmountable problem. Case in point: the British SMLE. It used a staggered column box magazine with rimmed cartridges - very successfully.

Granted, adapting the concept to the .22 rimfire round may very well be much more difficult simply because of the small size of the round. Expecially when you compare the relative size of the rim, both in thickness and width, of the .22 versus the .303.

Is it possible? Probably. Is it practical in application. Probably not.

hillbill · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2010, 02:05:10 PM »

kel-tec is doing it with the 22 mag so it can be done.maybe if its a big success someone will make one 22lr?

Dee · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2010, 02:33:07 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on September 07, 2010, 11:53:40 AM

One word RIM .

I think SHOOTALL is right.

tacklebury · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2010, 02:42:11 PM »

Probably because in most cases 10+ rounds are enough.

tcrace · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2010, 05:17:26 PM »

The Ramline Syntec or Exactor had a 15 round staggered magazine. For a short time I owned the later Mountain Eagle pistol of the same design made by Magnum Research IIRC. The pistol and magazine were largely made from synthetics (plastics, polymers) and it was a very light and surprisingly accurate package. I never experienced any problems in feeding from the staggered magazine so I doubt the rim of the rimfire cartridge is the reason for it not being common. In fact I believe it was the useless AWB of '94 that led to this guns demise, and I would love to see these pistols back in production now that high cap magazine are once again available to most civilians.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** September 08, 2010, 02:51:54 AM »

With center fire if a rim is present there is no issue with pinching or rough handling . With a rimfire either has the ablity to set off thre primer mix in the rim . The construction of a mag to keep this from happening would be expensive . With other types of less expensive mags on the market would such a gun sell ? It would seem to need to be curved and how would that fit a pistol other than a broom handle type set up ?

drdougrx · « **Reply #8 on:** September 08, 2010, 01:25:40 PM »

Now here's a topic I'd never even considered.......

LocnLod · « **Reply #9 on:** September 08, 2010, 03:05:45 PM »

The new Keltec .22mag has a double stack 30 round magazine.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** September 09, 2010, 03:27:46 AM »

The kel-tec site says its a speical design mag. it will be interesting to see. The chamber is also fluted since 22 mag ammo is made for use in a rifle .

tcrace · « **Reply #11 on:** September 09, 2010, 07:20:11 PM »

There's no need for a curved magazine to accomplish a double stack rimfire setup. The angle may need to be a bit more than the 11 deg. of the classic 1911, like Ruger has done with their Std. Model, Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, and 22/45 series. The rims simply sit one in front of each other with the top round being in front of the next in line. In a double stack they do this while laying closer to horizontal than vertical (until they get to the top) with each one who's next in line for the chamber having it's rim in front. Although the priming compound is in the rim it must take quite a bit to set them off from side impact. Many times I've had to warn new shooters about pulling way down on the follower button and then letting it slam against the rounds already in the mag on my Ruger MarkI,II,III series, and fortunately none have gone bang.

tcrace · « **Reply #12 on:** September 09, 2010, 07:27:25 PM »

I also forgot to mention that Remington currently makes their 597 rifle with a double stack magazine that they refer to as "staggered-stack". Although only ten rounds and not considered high capacity it is double stack and mine functioned reliably and it's new owner (has had it for about 6 years now) says it's still going strong. These were the second gen. mags not the latest that are now longer and have less staggering/double-stacking.

shvlhead.45 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2010, 09:42:11 AM »

Aren't those long magazines for the Ruger 10/22 variants double stack magazines?

Shvlhead.45

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** September 14, 2010, 03:37:34 AM »

not the ones i have owned .

tcrace · « **Reply #15 on:** September 14, 2010, 07:18:45 PM »

There were 30 round mags for the 10/22 that were double-stack and shorter than the 25 rounders. I don't think they're made currently. (Maybe Eagle) The ones I had weren't very reliable and ended their lives as targets

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** September 15, 2010, 02:51:08 AM »

The only eagle mag i had was single stack. Made a loop . did not work well . The buttler creek also a ss worked good .

tcrace · « **Reply #17 on:** September 15, 2010, 08:27:32 PM »

Yep, the current Butler Creek hot lips work pretty good but some of the older ones became targets after a few sessions. Shooters Ridge appears to (still?) make a double stack 30 round mag for the 10/22. http://www.eabco.com/store/products/Shooter_s_Ridge_Double_Stack_10_22_Magazine_30_Round_Clear-1773-0.html

Camba · « **Reply #18 on:** September 16, 2010, 04:24:47 PM »

I believe the magazines made now are much more reliable (the ammo is also more reliable). I have a 30 round and a 50 round 10/22 magazines that I used with my 10/22 Charger and so far I had not have a jam with ither one of them.

As far as a double stack 22LR, I hope that Kel-tec makes one similar to its 22 magnum PMR-30. The only reason I may venture to opine for is that most 22LR pistols were designed with either competition or hunting in mind. A double stack with more than 10 rounds are illegal for hunting in the State of Missouri.

I would buy more than one pistol and a supply of 30 round magazines if they make them. That to me could be the best plinking device that can be easy to take anywhere (even for self defense).

Camba

tcrace · « **Reply #19 on:** September 16, 2010, 06:17:10 PM »

I too would love to see a 22lr version of the PMR30.
I have to go get a paper towel now, I drooled a little bit.

11:11 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2010, 06:52:19 AM »

I owned a Grendel P-30 that held 30 rds of .22 magnum . It was a blast to shoot , the magazine never presented and feed problems ,so I would assume it can be done with the .22 Lr as well.

26-t · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2010, 04:56:28 PM »

Walther P22 is a (slight) double stack mag pistol. It works great!26-t

Brett · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2010, 07:00:50 AM »

My guess is that a double stack rimfire magazine is more difficult to manufacture requiring tighter tolerances in order to work reliably and be more difficult to keep working reliably since rimfire ammo is generally not the cleanest burning stuff.

Besides how much of a market is their really for rimfire pistols carrying more than 10 rounds? Extra loaded 10 round magazines are inexpensive enough, small and lite enough that you can carry several on you without any hardship. Replacing a spent magazine with a full one takes but a couple of seconds, not a big issue with a non defensive gun which is what most of us consider a .22lr anyway. Finally, probably 90% or better of rimfire gun stoppages are caused by a magazine related issue such as dirt or bent feed lips so that a quick change of magazines will get you up and running ASAP.

Personally I would rather have a 10 rounder in the gun with two spares in a pocket or belt scabbard than one 30 rounder in the gun.

Another thought I have is how is the balance of the pistol effected as you go from a full 30 round magazine down to the last half dozen rounds?

Camba · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2011, 05:27:59 PM »

Brett siad:
......My guess is that a double stack rimfire magazine is more difficult to manufacture requiring tighter tolerances in order to work reliably and be more difficult to keep working reliably since rimfire ammo is generally not the cleanest burning stuff.
Besides how much of a market is their really for rimfire pistols carrying more than 10 rounds? Extra loaded 10 round magazines are inexpensive enough, small and lite enough that you can carry several on you without any hardship. Replacing a spent magazine with a full one takes but a couple of seconds, not a big issue with a non defensive gun which is what most of us consider a .22lr anyway. Finally, probably 90% or better of rimfire gun stoppages are caused by a magazine related issue such as dirt or bent feed lips so that a quick change of magazines will get you up and running ASAP.

Personally I would rather have a 10 rounder in the gun with two spares in a pocket or belt scabbard than one 30 rounder in the gun.

Another thought I have is how is the balance of the pistol effected as you go from a full 30 round magazine down to the last half dozen rounds?......

I would say: If a 30 round magazine can be made and it works; they why not making a 30 round 22LR? I would say to the mechanically inclined tinkers to try it. It should be easy to use the PMR-30 platform by just changing a barrel and magazine (conversion kit 22WMR to 22LR).

As far as market for a high capacity 22LR pistol, I would ask: How much of a market is there for a 22 WMR with 30 round magazine is out there? I would say, Kel-tec can keep up with production and there is a track load of customers (including me) that wants one.

Personally I would rather have a 30 rounder in the gun with two 30 rounders spares in the pocket.

The balance will have the same effect as a Glock 17 as you empty its magazine. That is just my opinion even though I also like the 10 rounders too.

Camba