9mm crimp

[buffermop]

Is it recomended or not to crimp a 9mm stock bullet?

[Siskiyou]

There was discussion of this subject a few months back.  I have two sets of 9MM dies, one being the Lee 4-die set including a factory crimp die.  I loaded cast, FMJ, and factory jacket Hp using the factory crimp die. Components were the same as I used with the 3-die set.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690963

Lee says a crimp die is not needed with their 3-die set.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1287275021.3419=/html/catalog/dies-pistol.html




Quoting Myself:

    Re: 9mm crimp or not to crimp
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 02:49:20 PM »    Quote  Modify

________________________________________
Okay, I have loaded just over two hundred 9 MM rounds using my new Lee 4-die set with carbide, lube free sizing.  Before this I used the standard 3-die set for the 9MM without any problem.

Bullet retention is a concern so I have done some testing and I think the new set does a satisfactory job.   The third die in the set, the “Bullet Seating Die,” will seat the bullet and will crimp the case.  I have mine set so that it just kisses the case about 1/16 on an inch.  I have tested this using an impact bullet puller and with this setting it takes three or more impacts to dump the bullet. This is consistent with factory ammunition.  At this point I believe I am at the same level as I was with my old set.

Lee says the 4th die in the set Crimps and Post Sizes Cases.  The statement is a little confusing.  But I do not find the directions confusing.  I can adjust the die to just kiss the case, or create more of a crimp.  At this point I am using the kiss setting. 

The directions say, “Don’t expect the carbide sizer to touch every case.  It is a failsafe tool for the occasional bad round that could ruin your day.”  The bottomline is if you want you can leave this die in the box you can.  I have the dies mounted on top of my older 6-station Lyman turret press. 

My normal practice is to have the dies pre-adjusted in the press.

1.    Tumble and inspect brass.
2.   De-cap and resize brass.
3.   Clean primer pockets, and prime.
4.    Place primed case in shell holder under the Expander die that has been adjusted and run the case into the die.  5.  While the case is in the die, charge the cases with the proper powder charge. (Scale and Lyman 55 powder measurer.)
5.   Lower the case and inspect the mouth of the case to insure it has the correct level of powder in it.   Hold bullet at the mouth of case as it enters the die on a down stroke of the ram handle.  The bullet is seated to the proper depth and the kiss crimp is put in place.

Oops!  EDIT (During this period I failed to charge a case and after fifty years of loading I had a bullet stuck in the barrel.  This is not the fault of the dies but me changing my process to use the powder charging die.    In the past I charged all my cases in a block, and then inspected them with a light before moving to the bullet seating process.  Most likely I will return to this practice.)
6.   I then run the round into the crimp and post size die.  Most of the time I felt no contact in over 200 rounds.  I believe there was contact with three or four rounds. 

The question in my mind why was there contact?  I think that I did not get the bullet squarely on top of the case mount and it entered the case on a cant.  At this point in the process I am handling a small bullet in a confined space.  I am a little concerned that I will pinch my fingers, and my old fingers do not retain the bullets as good as they did when I was twenty. 
When I bell the mouth of the case to take the bullet I do it just enough to accept the bullet without scraping.  I learn many years ago that expanding the mouth of the case can be overdone.

I pull the case out of the shell holder and inspect the loaded round for defects and place the round in a tray.  I follow-up by rotating the head of the press putting Expander die above the shell holder and go to the next case.

I almost skipped over the powder measurer but it is a critical part of the process.  A double charge of fast burning powder and destroy my gun, and send me to the hospital.  I have two Lyman 55 powder measures on my bench; one for rifle rounds and the other for pistol.  Before charging cases I fill the 55 with powder, and adjust it until I am zeroing out on my scale.  During the loading process following published recommendations I confirm every 10th charge.  I chose not to charge from the 55; I like charging from the Expander Die, and then looking into the case to confirm the charge when I lower the handle.

Loading can be a little mundane at times so this is a good safety check.

How important is the 4th die, I guess that falls under that Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder category.  I did okay with the three die set.  But I recall seeing some guys loading their 45 ACPs out of a large box of 2000 rounds.  Every once and a while they would have a malfunction with a round failing to chamber.  It was determined that the case was slightly over sized.   The 4th die may have prevented the malfunction.

I keep a set of calipers handy to measure a few rounds.  Getting the 9MM round is right is very important.  It is a small case and if you seat the bullet to deep high pressure can be generated.  The round headspaces on the lip of the case and too much of a crimp can cause head spacing problems.

Note taking is very important to me, for future reference.  I am loading with a number of different powders and I need to go back and check to see what worked and what has not worked.  Despite the wordiness the 9MM case is easy to load.

Paying attention to grey-wolf’s post the next time I am loading lead bullets I am going to take some measurements regarding the resizing of the bullets with the crimp die.  I know that when loading plated bullets it left a crimp ring on the wall of the bullet.  This was part of my early tension testing by loading dummy rounds and then using the Impact bullet puller to test retention.

The discussion:
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,200515.msg1099039016.html#msg1099039016

[JustaShooter]

Is it recomended or not to crimp a 9mm stock bullet?

A slight taper crimp is all you need - just enough to take the bell out of the case mouth and press the case against the side of the bullet.  Since 9mm headspaces on the case mouth, you don't want to crimp enough to press the case into the side of the bullet, nor do you want a roll crimp (but then, I doubt any 9mm dies will put a roll crimp on the case anyway).

Just a Shooter