Author Topic: Officer's Perspective . . . (Read 837 times)

Ranger413 · « **on:** November 30, 2003, 03:53:47 AM »

This is my attempt at addressing the debate over the way a Contender or Encore is configured and/or registered (i.e. pistol/rifle). I'm an Encore owner so I have a vested interest in this subject, but with all the posts on this topic I just wanted to add a "reasonable officer's perspective". This is to go without saying that there are some hard core law dogs out there that can take things to the limit.

First off you will have to be involved in a serious violation of law or hunting/shooting accident for this to be an issue. Officers do not routinely grab guns off of people and check serial numbers to see how they were registered.

When a violation is observed there are a couple of main checks done. The first would be to ascertain if the subject with the gun is a convicted felon. If so, it's off to the pokey. Convicted felons cannot carry firearms. The second check would be to see if the gun is listed as stolen. Again, if so off to the pokey.

Now comes the part where the officer could possibly find out if how the gun was registered. It is usually mandated by individual department policy that an ATF check be done on the firearm's history if it is stolen, possessed by a felon, or involved in a serious accident or crime. Then a complete workup will be done by the ATF that will show when/where it was manufactured, shipped to, purchased from, registered as (i.e. pistol/rifle) etc, etc.

I honestly don't think that most officers out there know much about Contenders/Encores and know they can convert from pistol to rifle and back again. So I don't see them hassling you to see how the gun was registered. Maybe they do this in some states, but I don't do it here. It's too much work to be just "fishing". The ATF is the agency really concerned about this stuff and to be honest with y'all, I think they have bigger fish to fry.

Once again, not legal advice, just an officer's persective.

Ranger413

pete50 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2003, 01:21:47 PM »

I am a Deputy Sheriff in WV. As such within our county, we have concurrent law enforcement jurisdiction with all other officers here, including WV-DNR. I have an encore myself and could not possibly tell you how it "is registered." I have never seen such a test performed by a law enforcement officer here in 11+ years. I dont even know how we could find that information, short of calling in an ATF Firearms Trace report (takes at least two weeks for non-emergency). 95+ % of officers do not even know how to find the forms to do such a thing. The only thing the officers will check is the serial number through NCIC to see if the weapon is stolen or has a removed serial number (altered, ground off, etc.). That being said, most officers know you shouldn't have a pistol barrel on a rifle frame. If you have a shoulder stock and a rifle barrel, you are going to be fine. Likewise, if you have the appropriate licenses to hunt with a handgun, and your encore frame is set up with a pistol barrel and handgun grip, you will likewise be fine. I can assure you, no matter who flames this post (including any lurking federal agents) that no one will check to see how your gun was purchased and how it is registered. You are more likely to see a monster 30 pointer, than a federal officer out of his office or actually working a case, lol!!! It may be illegal to change the encore from a rifle to pistol in some places, but I've never heard of such a thing being checked in the field. Now obviously, if you are a felon or planning to commit a felony or other crimes with this gun, the police will throw the book at you if you are caught with the gun under the wrong circumstancesand a full investiagtion will be conducted including the trace. This will also include a game violation if the gun is taken as evidence. Under anything short of a criminal investigation though, no one will bother. Of course I can only speak for WV circumstances. We are simple folk that like the common sense approach and consider gun control to be using both hands and hitting where you aim, not a set of ridiculous laws. Obviously, none of this common sense applies in California (land of fruits and nuts), NY, NJ, CT, or any other state where "an assault rifle" such as the encore is rightfully recognized as a weapon of mass destruction. :lol: :lol: :lol:

New Hampshire · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2003, 01:47:10 PM »

Add to that the fact that if you are going to commit a grievous crime there are far more effective weapons than a T/C Encore/Contender rifle frame converted to pistol form. As I re-copied in my previous post the letter from T/C. It may or may not directly deal with the issue at hand. But at least I interpert it to say its legal, and I have it in writing, so I think Im covered in case. But like many other posters have said, when you get a bunch of frames together you tend to loose track which is which, so does it really matter anyways? Its really all a game of twister between two words, Rifle and pistol. They are the same frame, but the label on the box makes those two words a problem.
Thanks,
Brian M.

Flash · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2003, 02:16:07 AM »

Thanks guys, I've always felt that my weapon would be the last thing scrutinized if my behavior and activities were acceptable while hunting. I've met a Game Warden in the field while handgun hunting and anounced that I was armed with one. These words, however intimidating allowed a comunication process to begin with both parties on even ground and creating a sense of honesty. The conversation immediately turned to my luck in seeing any deer and wishing me luck in the rest of the hunt. I personally feel that if I acted like an idiot, I would have been treated like one, regardless of how my weapon was registered.

Ranger413 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2003, 03:28:42 AM »

Flash,

You were right to announce that you had a gun. Common sense goes a long way. It's just too bad there aren't more folks out there that have it. Job security I guess.

Ranger413

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2003, 03:48:56 AM »

This 30 year plus law enforcement officer (15 years as a Fed, and only the last year not in the field but now in a suit and tie sitting at a desk) will tell you if you are conducting lawful activities and you are encountered by a law enforcement officer and you have your TC pistol equipped with pistol barrel and pistol grip or rifle barrel with rifle stock, no more than the checks already mentioned will be conducted, by the average law enforcement officer.

But if you have that pistol grip on with the rifle stock or the pistol barrel on with the rifle stock you are going to answer more questions and possibly find yourself in some trouble.

I can also tell you that in every case where I encountered restricted Weapons and ATF was notified they said use State law and took no action themselves. I have only heard of them taking federal action if they were looking at the guy for something more serious.

Bob_K · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2003, 03:31:56 PM »

ALL Encore, Contender, and G2 are manufactured by T/C as PISTOLS, so Thompson Center has you covered. They have even taken the issue to court and won. Since the frame was originally a pistol, it can be converted to rifle and back to pistol without violation of any federal laws. Just because the yellow sheet you filled out when you bought your T/C firearm may have called it a rifle, that does not change the original designation. Obviously that is not related to assembling the firearm with a rifle stock and a pistol barrel. You can't do that, but just owning the parts does not constitute a crime.