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Offline irold

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cast loads
« on: September 19, 2010, 01:31:46 PM »
Friend of mine and I were discussing his cast loads for his 44 Mag.  I ask about leading , he said not a problem.  I told him of my problems with my 44 and 45 , he suggested loading with 2400 instead of bullseye or unique. ( my loads :44 , 7 1/2 grains of unique under 240 SWC). His thinking was perhaps the hotter powders like bullseye or unique were melting the base of my bullets as they entered the barrel.  Most of my leading problems are right ahead of the cone.  I found one of GBs posts of him using 2400 with 240 grain cast.....anyone care to share their thoughts on using 2400 rather that the faster powders like bullseye or unique. At what point should I go to a gas check cast bullet ?

regards irold
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Offline Dill45

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 02:17:50 PM »
The best way to get rid of leading is to get a properly fitting bullet.  One that is .001-.002 over your bore, and either size to fit for your cylinder throat or .0005 over cylinder throat.  This will get rid of most of your leading.  (Assuming your barrel is in good condition, ect.)

My 44 has a pretty big bore and cylinder throats, if I shoot .430 bullets through it, it leads like crazy and accuracy is pretty sporadic.  If I shoot .432 bullets, leading goes away and the groups tighten up a ton.

The other thing is that really hard bullets tend to take a lot of pressure to properly obturate the bullet to prevent gas cutting.  In this case either a softer bullet or a hotter load could work.  If you push it to fast it will lead because of other failures.

The first thing I'd try is slugging your bore and throats, to see if you're using the properly sized bullet.  If you are, try a softer bullet.

As far as gas checks, I've been told when you hit 1400-1600 FPS you should start gas checking the bullets.
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Offline irold

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 03:17:00 PM »
Hey , thanks, Dill45.

Seems like I can't rid myself of this leading problem.  How/where do I get the proper stuff to slug a bore and throat ?  I've looked at Brownelles and Midway can't find anything.  Or maybe I'm not calling it by its proper name ?
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Offline KansasPaul

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 03:35:06 PM »
check out the "cast Bullet discussions" and "Ask Veral" forums that are just below the handloading forum. Lots of information is available - check the stickies at the top.

Paul
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Offline Dill45

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 04:57:28 PM »
Quote from: irold on September 20, 2010, 03:17:00 PM
Hey , thanks, Dill45.

Seems like I can't rid myself of this leading problem.  How/where do I get the proper stuff to slug a bore and throat ?  I've looked at Brownelles and Midway can't find anything.  Or maybe I'm not calling it by its proper name ?

I personally use either lead bullets (softer ones) or lead sinkers (the egg shaped ones, slightly bigger than your bore) from any outdoor store.  Besides that you need a rubber mallet and either a brass or wood dowel to hammer the bullet through the barrel/throat.
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Offline mdi

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2010, 08:16:31 AM »
OOPS!
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Offline mdi

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 08:20:14 AM »
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Offline irold

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2010, 01:22:46 PM »
Thanks , mdi

sounds like a piece of cake.......I'm no virgin at using a mic or caliper, however i was unsure what to use for the slug.  I'll giver it a go.   Thanks again.

regards irold
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Offline GH1

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2010, 01:57:30 PM »
IROLD,
 Leading is a pretty complex issue and there are no easy answers. Too hard of a bullet will lead just like too soft of a bullet. Reason being, if the bullet is too hard to obturate properly, the seal will not be there and the hot gasses will go around the bullet, causing lead to form.  Poor fit will cause leading as well. 
As for my own experience, I had really bad leading in my .357 using  mild Bullseye loads.  When I switched to AA#9 the leading all but disappeared, I suspect it was due to the obturation thing.  Or maybe it was like you buddy said and the hotter Bullseye melted my rounds.  I don't know. 
 The point is, you'll most likely have to do a little bit of experimenting to find a load that works in YOUR gun. Every gun is different, even if they're the same model.  It can be a time consuming process, but what better reason to go to the range?
GH1 :)
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2010, 02:08:25 PM »
I shoot a lot of .45 colt and .45 acp with unchecked leads with no leading using Unique.  You shouldn't need a gas check for sub 1400fps rounds typically.  Could be a timing issue with your cylinder.

Good luck figuring it out.  I'd probably try the .001 larger bullets before worrying about the powder.
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Offline irold

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 05:25:39 AM »
Thanks Gentlemen

Sounds like I have lots of possablities, now I just have to figure which one is the culprit. 

regards irold
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Offline wncchester

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 02:59:54 PM »
"Too hard of a bullet will lead just like too soft of a bullet. Reason being, if the bullet is too hard to obturate properly, .."

That's certainly true of lower pressure loads such as .38 and .45 but I've never found an alloy too hard to obturate with medium to heavy bullets in a hot loaded .357/.44 mag.  Both 2400 and H-110 have worked very well in both mag cases for full power loads for me. 

Unique is very good for moderate loads, Bullseye is only for light loads.
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Offline gray-wolf

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 10:40:21 AM »
Quote
The best way to get rid of leading is to get a properly fitting bullet.  One that is .001-.002 over your bore, and either size to fit for your cylinder throat or .0005 over cylinder throat.  This will get rid of most of your leading.  (Assuming your barrel is in good condition, ect.)

My 44 has a pretty big bore and cylinder throats, if I shoot .430 bullets through it, it leads like crazy and accuracy is pretty sporadic.  If I shoot .432 bullets, leading goes away and the groups tighten up a ton.

The other thing is that really hard bullets tend to take a lot of pressure to properly obturate the bullet to prevent gas cutting.  In this case either a softer bullet or a hotter load could work.  If you push it to fast it will lead because of other failures.

The first thing I'd try is slugging your bore and throats, to see if you're using the properly sized bullet.  If you are, try a softer bullet.

As far as gas checks, I've been told when you hit 1400-1600 FPS you should start gas checking the bullets.


   Great reply!  I aree 100%
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Offline GH1

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Re: cast loads
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 04:13:11 PM »
Quote from: wncchester on September 22, 2010, 02:59:54 PM
"Too hard of a bullet will lead just like too soft of a bullet. Reason being, if the bullet is too hard to obturate properly, .."

That's certainly true of lower pressure loads such as .38 and .45 but I've never found an alloy too hard to obturate with medium to heavy bullets in a hot loaded .357/.44 mag.  Both 2400 and H-110 have worked very well in both mag cases for full power loads for me. 

Unique is very good for moderate loads, Bullseye is only for light loads.

That must be why the AA#9 took care of my problem.
GH1 :)
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