.45-70 Shorty

[steve@357maximum.com]

I posted this question on the Indiana forum and thought I'd see if anyone here could provide input.  I recently purchased a very nice used Ruger No. 1 in .45-70.  Initial testing shows it is a shooter with 300 gr. jacketed bullets in the standard case (3-shots under 1 inch at 100 yds).  In Indiana, deer hunting rifle cartridges must have a minimum diameter of .357 and case length cannot exceed 1.625".  Having said that, has anyone experimented with trimming these cases down to make a legal IN deer round?  If so, would you share your loading/accuracy details?  I'm not looking to abandon the .357 Max, I would just like to take a doe or two with my new rifle.  Thanks, Steve

[petemi]

I doubt anyone has tried it.  I'd just go ahead and do it.  All you've got to loose is a bit of brass, powder and bullets.  Ya could go down in History as the "Indiana .45-70 Man".  I'm assuming you know more about pressures etc. ect. than I do and can work the load out.

I had an interesting thought....what happens when your friendly Conservation Officer comes around and reads ".45-70 Govt" on the headstamp??  Ya might be off for a paddy wagon ride until it's sorted out.   Dan'l Boon didn't have to fret over that kind of stuff.....all he had to worry about was his scalp

Pete

[gendoc]

matter of fact, a couple years ago we tried that.. but not for indiana laws 
other than loosing brass, powder, and bullets.... most of all it lost accuracy from the
jump !!!!.  it was a total waste of time... you need a handi to try that with...
then you have not wrecked $1k or less depending on the class.
sounds like you need a casull rechambered handi 45colt !!!

[bikerbeans]

Steve,

Another round that should be good for IN deer would be the 445 Supermag, Case length 1.61".  Getting brass from Starline is sort of a iffy deal but I think you can make this brass from another cartridge but which one is escaping me at the moment.  Also, I believe Quality Brass in Virginia offers this brass.  Reamer rental and go to town on a breakopen 44 Mag.  There are a few of these rifle out in Handi Land but their owners are a bit possessive so I wouldn't expect to see one in the classifieds.  

BB

[petemi]

BB, you can make .445 brass from the .30-40, but you have to trim the rim for the ejector/extractor too.  I have an order in for 100 .445 brass from Midway which is on backorder, but expected before long.

And, yeah, I aint lettin loose of mine   She's a definite smacker.  I just love it.  It brings the .44 Mag  handgun all the way out to a big bore rifle.  I'd tackle anything that walks Michigan with it, and perhaps even bigger stuff.

Pete

[steve@357maximum.com]

I checked with the DNR and received an email from someone that assured me as long as the case length meets the requirement I'm okay.  The guy from the DNR even told me his father in law was trying the same thing but did not offer any details.  It probably would not hurt to carry a copy of the email and a 6-inch scale in case I am questioned.  But seriously, in over 30 years of deer hunting, I have never been checked by a Conservation Officer.  The only reason I am pursuing this is because I already have a .45-70, and I would just like to give it a try.  My field proven IN deer rifle is a Ruger No. 1 in .357 Magnum opened up to .357 Maximum and this is the gun I will continue to hunt with even if the .45-70 short version works out.  I would just like to try the big bore once or maybe twice.  I understand that bullet jump can be an issue with accuracy.  I am just not sure what is the best way to flare and neck size the short case since standard dies are too long.  I am experimenting with neck sizing with a 45 ACP die but this seems a little under size for the .458 bullets. 
Thanks for all the input,
Steve

[Rustyinfla]

Steve,

  There is also a mail list on the yahoo groups that I get mail from that is dedicated to #1's.Someone there might know something about this chande you're trying to make.

  try RUGER-1@yahoogroups.com to join.

[thejanitor]

I bought some necked (40-60) down 45-70 brass that after I re opened it back to 45-70 it had been shortened quite a bit..... I got them loaded with trail boss and cast loads to finish fire forming the cases back out but when the short case goes into the die, you don't get ANY crimp. You can screw in the seater to seat the bullet far enough but with no crimp you have no consistant pressure, At least for me I had no consistancy. I have 16 brass that are too short for regular 45-70 use Steve@357 pm me if you want them for the shipping fee. I don't know if it is even worth it for you, but I won't be using them, they are once fired. I just played with getting them back to proper dimention for a week while I waited for my correct length brass to come.
thejanitor

[bigbigjoe76]

Steve, you really need to check the laws very closely. I live in SC and one DNR officer will differ from another. If your gun is a 45-70, it won't matter if your bullets fit the bill, what will matter is that the gun is capable of shooting the longer bullets. Just don't want to hear of anyone getting into trouble over something like that.

   Joe

[Dinny]

Steve,
   Sorry for not getting a reply to you sooner. Hank has already done it and seems to have decent accuracy from his rifle. Here are a few links discussing the topic.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,183986.0.html


http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,119582.0.html

Thanks, Dinny

[tacklebury]

Yah, I tried using Hornady brass which is still 2" and had some issues with a drop in accuracy at that length.  8(  I did try them with some long nosed lead bullets that I couldn't get to chamber without pushing into the rifling using my Starline, but overall a pita that didn't accomplish anything spectacular.  8(  I am going to try them with some long nose jacketed bullets also to try later though.

[gcrank1]

And can you briefly explain just what in the world their 'logic' is for that kind of inane regulation?
It sounds like they have nobody with an understanding of exterior ballistics.

[Dinny]

And can you briefly explain just what in the world their 'logic' is for that kind of inane regulation?
It sounds like they have nobody with an understanding of exterior ballistics.

The State's rational was to allow pistol calibers in hopes to allow more hunters the opportunity to hunt. Now we have many women and youth hunting that previously did not enjoy the recoil from shooting slug guns or muzzle loaders. My tiny mother, for one, is a great example. This year she will be using a .357 Mag/Max H&R rifle. Years past she tried a .410ga slug gun only to be handicapped by it's very limited range.

Thanks, Dinny

[gcrank1]

I assume 'pistol calibers' to avoid the dreaded long range errant shot from a 'high power rifle' endangering the high density population.
So....a .454, or a .460, or a .500S&W is OK and 'safe' while that dangerous 45-70 has been justifyably condemed to the vault.
Lets see, X bullet weight and comparable dia./SD and BC at a given velo, according to high school physics, will have a similar trajectory given the same angle of elevation.
Nope.......it (their regulation) still doesnt compute to me.
But what do I know, Im sure they are all college graduates.

[Dinny]

The .460 is not permitted, it's too long.

Thanks, Dinny

[JimP.]

500 Smith Wesson magnum is exactly 1.625 inches long, get a nice Handi Rifle to shoot it in and it will do the job for sure...