Why Pre & Post 1964 Model 94?

[LowNSlow]

I've been looking at the Win 94's and they advertise as pre and post 1964, what's the difference?

[LowNSlow]

Sorry, had I scrolled down the page a little more I would have had my answer.

[demented]

  Several internal parts and the receivers were changed to allow cheaper manufacturing costs.  I've owned both and can't really see any advantage the pre-64's have as to longevity and accuracy.  When it comes to shooting, IMO, a model 94 is a 94 is a 94......

[Range Rider]

The grand old rifle fell to the fate of fast production and lower cost.  The orginal 94s were machined from gun steel and held together by machine screws.  The post 64s like all Winchester products of that time were turned into junk that know one would buy.  That is why Winchester is gone.  The post guns were made from investment casting (Like Ruger) and held together with pins pressed in place.  The fine walnut stocks were replaced by wood most likely stolen from old beaver lodges.

[DJWright]

Yup, and not only that but even the loading gate that was in the pre '64 models made from machine hunks of solid steel, were then replaced with cheap stampings made from beer cans!
By '64 most of the gun making equipment was pretty well wore out, so a case could even be made for pre '63 models.

Of course the real nail in the coffin of the '94s was with the brilliant idea to put that big stupid cross bolt safety thru the receiver. But they couldn't do a fairly clean job as with the Marlins. . .  Noooo, they had to chamfer a big divit into the receiver to highlight the stupid safety as well.
I've aways liked the model '94, but when they did that, I had no interest in owning a new one again.

I luckily found one that looks as though it came right from the box unfired. Manufacture date : Early in 1942!

[ironglow]

Such things a tubular pins in place of solid pins or bolts.. I believe a parallel can be drawn which illustrates the few  post '64 years as the few AMF years for Harley..

[Range Rider]

!942 like new that would be a find.  The one I use about every day is a 1958 SRC carbine.  This was a prize to a Rodeo winner some 50 odd years ago.    I like the story about their machines wearing out so they had to start making cheap rifles. I think if that were the case no company would be in production after 7 years. Winchesters  owner Olin Chemical brought in some profit experts, the rest is history.

[jimster]

By '64 most of the gun making equipment was pretty well wore out, so a case could even be made for pre '63 models.

Boy I hope not...the one I have now and will keep till the end is a 1963. I have not found any differences in other pre 64's I have owned, and this one has a real nice hunk of walnut on it.  No complaints on this one.

[ironglow]

  "Bean counters" have destroyed many things..or seriously crippled them for several years until somebody with integrity and conscience rescued the original product..e.g. Winchester rifles, Harleys,Cub Cadets..even the early M-16s.

  Hey, Harley guys..do AMF Harleys face a reduced value..or if all the bad parts been replaced, are they good to go?

[John Y Cannuck]

Really, it was only a few years that were terribly bad. 1964 to roughly 1971.
I have a late 1971 carbine, I bought new that year. It has no stamped parts, and no functional problems.

If you place the two, one from the subject years, and a pre-64 side by side, you won't even have to open the action to see the difference.
The rear sight alone on the post 64 will make you run the other way. Looks like a sight that belongs on a cheap 22.

A friend has one of the terrible ones. He uses it as his beater rifle. It has feeding issues, with the stamped piece of sheet metal they used, and he's had trouble with the loading gate.
He has, I think, substituted some of the later model parts for the crap that was in the receiver, and the rifle shoots quite well now. It still looks like someone left it on the floor of their truck, but it works now anyway.

[jimster]

I have a late 1971 carbine, I bought new that year. It has no stamped parts, and no functional problems.

Friend of mine also picked up a 1971 for a great price, we compared with my 1963, the parts in his may be cast, but not stamped, no hollow roll pins or anything like that. Blueing was still good, we figure the frame could turn a funny color someday maybe, but function wise, all worked as well as my pre 64.
He got a great deal on a good shooter for all around use. Seems I read somewhere the bad ones were 1964 to about 1970 or so.   

[Keith L]

What I find interesting is that when the junky new 94s production stopped all of a sudden the price on them went through the roof.  I had traded into a 94 AE in the box lightly used that I thought was rather crude compared to my 9422M.  I swapped it for a NIB Glock 19, 5 new mags and and a thousand rounds of 9MM Fiocchi ammo.  I had about $250 in the rifle.  And the price didn't waver on pre-64s.  Now the price is still around the same on the pre-64s and the new ones that were gold a few years ago are not the investment many thought they would be.

[AtlLaw]

I got a mid 70's production M94 a while back.  My son hocked the pre-64 94 I had given him.   

I agree with what has been said here, pre-64 = good; early post 64 = bad; 70's + production = good; after that I dunno...  . 

[John Y Cannuck]

One thing of interest, at least on my 1971, is that it has some sort of hard finish, not a true bluing on the receiver. It chips. Not easily, but it chips.

[ironglow]

Thank goodness, Marlin didn't go that route....but with the recent sale of Marlin..keep your fingers crossed.

[Range Rider]

It really pains me.  The very American rifles like Winchester are only made in some anti-gun country across the sea. I love my Browning 1886 45-70 SRC. This is a fine rifle in every way. But dog my cats every time I look at that made in Japan thing below the rear sight it saddeneds me.  And to add insult to injury, Japan takes that very money and funds the UNs move to disarm the free world.  Some days its hard to find a winner.

[xit]

I picked my Model 94 in about 1979.  It was fairly new but used slightly.  It has been a really good rifle other then poorer blueing on  the receiver.  It has been deadly on a lot of game.

[Dee]

My Dad bought my Model 94 3030 new in early 1958, and gave it to me. Walnut if refinished would be once again beautiful. The bluing was rich, and the rifle smacked (still does) of SOLID STYLE. The finish is all but gone on the stock and the bluing is pretty thin, and gone in places. But my hand wore it off, and every scratch is a memory, and the worn bluing came from hour upon hour, of tracking men and in a patrol car, and on the hunt for 4 legged critters.
 I can put on a pair of thick welders gloves and blindfolded, I can tell a pre-64 from a post 64 apart, by weight alone if you hand me both. There is no comparison on that one issue.
Mine has been shooting without a hitch for almost 53 years now. I have one news paper clipping in a scrape book, taken of me when I was 27 years old doin a track on an escaped murder suspect on the Red River in Fannin County Texas holdin that rifle, and hopin I got a shot. I look at the pic, and re-read the article, and I remember how hot it was that day, and how I walked for hours carrying that rifle. I never even considered getting rid of it. If one of the boys doesn't want it when I die, just box it up with me, and I'll turn to dust and rust with it. Me and it have been together all but 8 years of my 61 years of life.
Now that little flashback didn't have a damn thing to do with the topic did it? Sorry. Me and my Winchester are just good buds.

[drdougrx]

Thanks Dee.....

[Dee]

Thanks Dee.....

For what? Shuttin up?

[drdougrx]

No y'old coot!!!  Fer giv'n us some persperctive and remind'n us that guns are personal....more than tools....

and...back to the thread...I sold marlin m1895 with a 4 digit serial # cause it had a straight stock and could not get a scope on it to fit so that it was comfortable.  The drop in the stock is was too low.

[PawPaw]

Several years ago I picked up a post-64 carbine that Winchester called the Antique Carbine.  It was the first of the non-commemorative rifles and haswhat looks like a color case-hardenend receiver with some sort of scroll work.  I picked it up cheap and it became my truck gun.  One commenter described it as "Winchester's attempt to put lipstick on a pig."

After taking it apart, I found that it had a few forged parts in it, probably left over from the pre-64 stockpile.  It was tight, barely closing on a field gage.  Many of the internal parts still had blueing on them, indicating that the rifle had been used very little.  There was also a ton of closet dust inside the action.  In short, the outside was rough, the action and barrel pristine.

I've got it sighted for my cast-bullet load, which uses the Lyman 311041 and IMR 4895 powder.  It's a good load, and while I haven't made any meat with it yet, hope springs eternal.   I really like the little rifle and have lots of fun with it, teaching nephews to shoot iron sights.  

I've never had a lick of trouble from my carbine and the kids will have to decide who takes it home, after I've gone.

[Range Rider]

Like Dee my old 94 is a 1850s vintage.  It has traveled many a mile across the high plains and Mtns of the west.  It still goes along and often times I just stop my Jeep out the desert and shoot cast bullets at rocks on a ridge line.  Maybe I never got over that first Red Ryder Carbine that I got on that CHRISTmas day sooo long ago.  Any way I see Winchester Repeating Arms is goin to make them again. The bad news is they will be made in Japan.  Just don't seem right having a Mdl 94  stamped Japan on the barrel. Glad I still have and old American one.

RR

[brianscott12]

I luckily found one that looks as though it came right from the box unfired. Manufacture date : Early in 1942!

What a coincidence. I also found a 94 made in early 42 and it also looks as though it just came out the box. Cool. I have all of 200 in it.

[tomcat]

 I bought my 94 in 1961, after returning from boot camp.
It cost the large amount of $73.00. The kill notches around the
buttplate have overlapped, and never a mechanical problem.