Newbie looking at H&R handi and ultra hunter in 308

[boreal boy]

Sorry to clog up this thread with such an elementary question, but i can't find answers anywhere else. I found this site googeling for reviews on H&R rifles as I am very interested in them. Let me post my questions then I will tell you a bit about myself; (yes i read the sticky's....wel the coles notes version anyway)
-is there any difference between the 308 handi and the 308 ultra hunter other than the stock?
-worth the extra cash?
-I hear great reviews and then I hear some "so-so' reviews, seams like it takes alot of fine tuning to get it juuussssst right (I am ok with that), is that so? is it tuff?
-looking for a single 308 tack driver, will this fit the bill?

I am a still hunting kind of guy. I am the kind of guy who thinks the hunt starts when you see the animal, I am not the classic truck hunter who thinks the hunt is over once he sees the animal, even if its 300+ yards away. this is why I am looking at the H&R's.. I think a single shot "one shot one kill" accurate bush rifle is what i need to compliment my "style" in the tight bush of eastern Canada.
I Plan to put a Redfield Revolution 2-7x33 scope on it, again to compliment my hunting methods and the country i hunt in.

I just want to make sure that if I buy this rifle I will be able to fine tune it With out too much trouble and make it an accurate and reliable bush gun I will be able to hand down to my kids.
thanks!

[Spanky]

Welcome to GBO.
The rifles are the same except for the wood... it just depends on personal preference as to whether or not it's worth the extra loot.
Handi Rifles are solid, dependable rifles without the bells and whistles. As to them being tack drivers... some of them will shoot lights out right out of the box and some of them need a little tweaking. Most generally they shoot alot better than one would think considering the low price of them.
For the ones that need tweaking it's usually an easy fix... there really isn't much to them and they're easy to work on. Alot of us fiddle with 'em just for the fun of it... they're addicting you know.
If you read through the FAQ's you will learn just about everything under the sun when it comes to Handi's and Tim is always adding new info.
As far as the Redfield scope... I have one on my 22-250 and I like it alot... it's very clear and the adjustments are right on. I plan on getting another one for my new 357 handi.
I hope this helps some... I'm sure someone will be along shortly with some 308 specific info for you... I don't have one... yet.



Spanky

[SEAk]

I use your style in the same kind of country and use H&R's most of the time.If you are a still hunter that takes hundred yard max shots the new 35rem would be a good rounds up there also.I would get the shortest barrel and lightest in your bullet of choice and add a nice peep sight and fill the freezer before it to late.For brush hunting I sure like wood over plastic because of the sound when twigs bounce of the stock

[mannyrock]

     Um, no offense intended, but to answer your question: No, you will not be able to fine tune it without alot of trouble.  Occasionally, people get Handi's that are MOA out of the box, but this is not the norm.  The Handi is a bargain rifle, that people buy for the fun of it, including working with them.  And, truth be told, some of them can never be fine tuned.

Regards, Mannyrock

[boreal boy]

Thanks Spanky!
I am glad to hear that the rifles that do need to be tweaked out of the box do not need much tweaking and it is easy to do. I have been going through the stickys and see all the info is there and it seems straight forward.
I see what you mean about it being addictive! once you tweak your rifle to where you want it, it its hard to stop...
I think I will buy the handi in .308, knowing that here on this site is all the knowledge and technical support needed to make it a tack driver (if its not out of the box) is a big selling feature!!! thanks
As for my reason for the 308, I want a do all cliber, for deer, moose and coyote at either under or over 100 yds. any suggestions?
I know that the beauty of the handis is I can have a barrel for each mood and while i plan to aguire them I figure I will start with a do 308 and eventualy  grad a 243 or 22-250 and a big one like 45-70 or something silly like that.
always looking for feedback fro more experienced people.
thanks

mannyrock,
well....thats not encouraging! but I appreciate your honesty and opinion.
All i want is a rifle, with a nice scope can pick off a deer behind the ear at 100 yards. durable and reliable. are you telling me the handi cant do it?

[necchi]

Can you hit "behind the ear" with a group like this?;
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,218369.0.html
I guess that thread say's it all for me,,

[southernutah]

don't go cheap on rings and scopes. make sure the base is  good and tight . I usually use some blue loctite and Warne QD rings. Same rest position on forearm when at the bench is important, been using a bipod attached to sling swivel stud .

[mannyrock]

Boreal,

   Yes, again without offense, I am telling you that alot of Handi's won't do that.  Take some tme to look through all of the post topics under the Handi's on this board over the past year, and you will find that many people (even experienced hunters and shooters) have problems with them that they can never resolve.

   And, I am a little confused by your standards.  You say that all you want is a rifle that will reliably shoot a deer behind the ear at 100 yards, as if that isn't much of a request.  Boreal, I have been deer hunting and working with rifles for over 40 years.  In order to do that with a rifle, you need a rifle that shoots a solid 1" MOA at 100 yards, every time.  That is a very high standard indeed.  Many very high quality rifles that cost upwards of $1,000 (and more) will NOT shoot 1" MOA, no matter what you do to them.   Indeed, if you want to buy a brand new rifle that has a written guarantee that it will shoot 1" MOA, then you will be limited to a very few specific brands of bolt action, and you will pay up towards $1,000 for them.  (I will let my friends list those brands for you.)  Are you under the mistaken impression that the Handi is a high priced, high quality item? (That would take all of the fun out of them!)

   Boreal, the Handi Rifle is a  very low priced rifle, of medium quality. In the main, they are solid performers, and if you work with them, you can tweek most of them (but not all) to nearly 1" MOA.  Even then, you have to hold the forearm with your hand placed on a specific part of the forearm, to prevent undue vibration. Manny.

  B

[BBF]

There are some calibers that appear to be easier to work with then others. If you can live with a 30-30 that would be my recommendation. You have moose listed. I lived for years on the west coast and can tell you that a 30-30 can take a moose down. As far as buying extra barrels,  not through the accessory program in Canada.

I am probably getting some heat for this, for a good low cost rifle in the 308W. I would be looking at a Stevens 200. The trigger can be worked on and is a lot easier to get used to then that Handi trigger with the transfer bar.

[mannyrock]

    I would agree, that the Stephens 200 is the most highly accurate, low priced rifle, out of the box that you can buy. 

   But, some folks don't like the sythentic, hollow stock. 

    The Handi has a better feel to it, but you have to be prepared to tinker.

Manny

[BBF]

I agree, that stock is @#%^&& . 

So the choice between messing with a rifle that may never shoot good or a stock that could be replaced on a rifle that shoots good would not be a difficult decision for me.

[gcrank1]

Not too long ago to get a rifle that would really do MOA out of the box was pretty rare. How many good hunting sporters were made out of army surplus rifles that mostly would do 3MOA or so? Did the deer (moose/bear/ coyote) know the difference. Add in my 'hunter wobble' and they all shoot bigger groups than off the bench too.
Im glad some guys are good enough to get bench/varmint sub-MOA groups in the field, but Im not one of them. Every Handi Ive had would do what you want to do. I havent had a lemon, some guys have, hope you dont. 
Ive had much more expensive rifles too that havent done any better than an average Handi. At this point in my life I like the idea that I have some inexpensive single shot rifles that perform pretty good for me.
You cant get into a decent single shot for this little without some sacrifices in fit and finish. I like that they are not (in the USA) imports. At least for you 'North American' made may be OK?
FWIW, I say give it a go (you want to anyway) and report back here on how well it performs and how happy you are.

[quickdtoo]

Ive had much more expensive rifles too that havent done any better than an average Handi. At this point in my life I like the idea that I have some inexpensive single shot rifles that perform pretty good for me.
You cant get into a decent single shot for this little without some sacrifices in fit and finish. I like that they are not (in the USA) imports. At least for you 'North American' made may be OK?

+1!! You can certainly spend a whole lot more money but it won't necessarily buy something more accurate!  

Tim

The Prince and the Pauper — Can Money Buy Accuracy?

Performance Shooter Recommends
Obviously, neither rifle is a dog. However, if accuracy is the only consideration, the Dakota isn’t worth the additional $8,000 it costs above the H&R’s tag. For pure performance, we would buy the H&R Ultra rifle and use the extra money to pay for several hunting trips.

[boreal boy]

Manny and scatterbrain,
Thanks for your honest  opinion. As you can tell I am not a very experienced hunter however I feel it is time to upgrade from my enfield jungle carbine to some a little less.....big and more accurate.
The reason I started looking at handi's is because of the simplicity and character more than the price. While i am on a budget I am not necessary looking for the cheapest thing that goes bang!
manny, thanks for breaking down the "behind the ear at 100 yards", good reality check. no offence taken!

gcrank, thanks for your input, I like the way you think.  when I hear people talking about “lemons” that are “untweakable” I have to think that perhaps that person is a little to pickey and demands thousands of dollar accuracy out of his handi. in then end, i just want a rifle that puts a bullet where i put the cross hears, just one, not a group "did the animal know the difference?" when the "kids" form work are talking about there fancy gear and guns  I use that one on them.

I was looking to check out a stevens as I hear they were a simple straight shooter but, I also heard the stock is...... not desirable, so i stopped looking. I did not know you could buy stocks for it, can you get wooden one? got a link Scat?
I also looked briefly at the savage edge but.... its not for me!
I also got away from the norm of bolt and considered marlin 336 in 30/30 or 35 rem and the marlin 308mx. the 308 is at the top of my budget without a scope. The 35 is nice but dosen't have the distance that I may want at some point and the 30/30...nothing wrong there. would probably put a scope on the 308 and use iron sights for the 336’s.
seen a remington 760 and 7600 both used but in great shape for sale, both with 19 inch barrels, nice but i don't know about the pump....

well this may be the wrong thread for this but its too late to stop now! any comments, suggestions and constructional criticism is welcome. Like I mentioned I am looking for something simple, reliable, accurate and with character, it has to be a do-all bush gun for deer, moose and coyote..., any suggestions?

[quickdtoo]

I've not shot the Stevens 200, but I have handled it and the Marlin XL7, I'd seriously look at the XS7 for an inexpensive bolt, it was impressive compared to the Stevens, specially the stock.  

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,163121.msg1098733849.html#msg1098733849

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,186097.msg1098918656.html#msg1098918656

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_323/products_id/57846

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/board,78.0.html

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,68144.msg668979.html#msg668979

[Spanky]

My 22-250 is a Stevens and you guys are right about the stock... it's crap.
The gun is ridiculously accurate though.
My dealer sells the Marlin XL7 too and he recommends them highly.



Spanky

[spikehorn]

I have an ultra varmint 308 win It shot an honest 1 1/2" out of the box at 100 yards with rem core loct 150gr The only thing I did to it before i shot it was JB Bore paste to the bore and then cleaned it. The more I shoot it the better the groups seem to be getting. last year I took a deer at 160 yards with it.

[BBF]

I would look at those Rem Pumps again. If the price is right I go for it. I'm sure our Rem. Rep agrees with me

[45-70.gov]

i  say  get  a 30-30
they  have a good reputation  in the handis
and hand load  your  own pointed bullets...
.or leverevolution   until  you start loading your own

[McDerry]

Assuming it is an actual No.5 Enfield and not one of the many immitations.

Your not going to gain much over a No. 5 Enfield.

My .308 Ultra weighs in a little heavier with the scope and is only about 3" shorter. 

Accuracy isn't incredibly better speaking the Jungle Carbines are non war time production and usually of much higher quality then there No. 4 Counter parts.

Also .308 is not a huge improvement Power wise over the .303 British.

[PigBoy Crabshaw]

I started my Handi life about a year ago with a 308 ultra and could not be happier. It sports a new Redfield 2-7x33 that fits the caliber and looks and carries ...handi! I've put about 300 rounds down range and on a good day is about 2"-3" at 100 yards with Federal factory stuff.
I would say out of the box it has been accurate enough for MOD (minute of deer). I'm taking my time with it and see what happins. I gave it a rub in with JB paste and when I get done with the case of ammo, I'll call that broke in with a case of brass to start loading. That should help with accuracy a bit...I'm hoping!
I'm hoping the trigger will lighten up a bit. I'm sure a trigger job would be in order, but will wait to see how it goes. It's not something I want to try and wish I lived near a Handi person to assist or learn from.
For the price I would say the Handi is a good rifle to play with. -gary

[godogz]

Just another gun to throw into the mix.  Our local Dunham's this week has Mossberg's Maverick rifles (bolt action, synthetic stock) for $189.99.  It has an internal magazine, but seems to be sturdy and the bolt and trigger work well.  My friend picked one up last week for $199.99, we scoped it and dialed it in for deer hunting (30.06 model) and it seemed pretty sturdy, well balanced, and gave us great groups with the super x 150's he bought with it.  I'd buy one if I was in the market for a rifle at that price.  I don't know all the flavors made, but I am sure 308's are on the list.  Here's a pic of the ad from their flyer.

[1NEFsofar]

Now for my $0.02......I have a Handi in 308 that I just switched scopes on and dialed it in yesterday.  It shot a three shot group of about 1" at 100 yards .  It will do this all day long every day with factory ammo (Remington Corelock 150 grain).  I use this primarily for deer and I am very comfortable taking shots our to 200 yards with it.  I am sure that I could hit something much further out accurately but my gun range only goes to 200 and that's as far as I have practiced. Also my scope is a Simmons 4-16x50 so it's definietly on the less expensive side.  I have not done much in the way of tinkering with it but have put a screw stop inthe barrel lug to make sure that I don't over tighten the forearm (10 minute job) and added and addtional O-ring in the forarm as well just becasue I had it sitting around.  The only long process was breaking in the barrel.  I did this to improve accuracey but then again I do this with all of my guns whether they be Handi's or not.  (The FAQ's have different methods for this.) Overall the gun shoots well and has not cost me nearly as much as a comparable bolt gun.  Also I shoot left handed so even finding a left hand bolt gun is tough, but single shots are great for this! 

I say purchase one and try it, if it doesn't work out for you, you certainly will have no problen selling it back here.

[mannyrock]

Boreal,

     If you do look at the Stephens 200, then while examining the somewhat cheap synthetic stock, remember that many people who buy this rifle smooth out the sharp molding edges with a little medium grade sandpaper, and then fill the hollow stock with a medium weight material (such as glass bead used in sandblasting, or non-expanding foam, or sometimes even lead shot), to take away the "hollow" feeling.  They end up being quite happy with them.  Again, in the main, they are extremely accurate.

    The choice between a Handi and a Stephens is somewhat like comparing an apple to an orange.  They can both be good performers.  The main point of the Handi rifle is that it's, well, very handy!

Best Regards,
Mannyrock

[petemi]

My 308 is one of the most accurate rifles I own.  It is not a Handi, but a Ruger M77 MKII.  All the pistol caliber Handis listed below in my signature line shoot MOA at 50 yards and all my Handi rifles calibers down there shoot MOA at 100.  I haven't done squat didly as far as tinkering with them, I just swapped frames around.  None are shimmed, only one trigger job was done (factory), when I bought barrels from H&R.  That was before I decided to put them all on dedicated stocks and frames. I always keep two or three SB2 frames around for fitting new barrels.  To my way of thinking, the Handi gives you a lot of bang for the buck.  Some of mine are awsome.  The .45-70 for example.  It put two holes touching at 100 yards and I at first couldn't find the third hole.  Closer examination showed it went almost exactly through the first hole.  I did a DRT on a deer two years ago with that rifle at 220 yards.  Yes...you do need to find the ammo they like.  They don't shoot accurately with all factory rounds.

Pete

[ihookem]

My son has an H&R super light in .243. I would stay away from the light barrels cause I think this is the problem. It shoots different every time I go to the range. It also seems that the .243 has the most problems with accuracy. I also think H&R should start putting  more quality in their guns because the way it seems the entry level bolts are getting more accurate every year. One poster claims his 22-250 in Stevens 200 is rediculously  accurate. I saw two new Stevens 200's today on sale for 300 bucks each one a .308 and the other a .243. If they are that accurate at that price then what sense does it make to pay 260- 300 for a gun you need to tinker with?

[gcrank1]

Because if you want more of a traditional single shot a bolt action of anything just doesnt do it.

[boreal boy]

Thanks to all for the informative feedback! You all gave me a lot of valuable input and lots to think about.
I am thinking that its time to $#!] or get off the pot! I have decided that i will pick up a handi and see where it takes me! I know there are a lot of accurate inexpensive bolts out there that will do the trick but...... I don’t know, that handi has got me!?! Like I said i will grab one, give it a year and see where it takes me. It wont be the last rifle i buy but I want to give it a chance to be my hunter.
As for calibre, I was considering a 30/30 and 35 rem, someone mentioned to get a 30/30 and use leverloution with pointed tips.... well I may aswell stick with a 308 as that's where the ballistics is heading. plus, I was looking to put a scope on it and the 308 comes with the rail and the 30/30 comes with iron sights. I am not saying that I wont want/buy a 30/30 with iron sights in the future its just that as for my first handi to be used on deer and moose i think i will play it safe and grab the 308. If i decide to gradb a 30/30 in the future I will probably buy a complete handi (if I like them) or a lever for deer here and leave the 308 with my father-in-law in Newfoundland for those Bog Donkeys.....(moose)......bla bla  bla...anywase looking forward to giving the handi a shot (pun intended).
Thanks again, I will post again once i get it because I have never broke in a barrel and will need help beyond the stickey’s.
All the best,
BB