300 win mag original and 200gr Barnes tsx

[Dand]

I' plan on working up loads in my 300 win mag (original 300 win mag). I have loaded a lot of 200 gr conventional bullets and a few of the 180 gr older Barnes X and coated X.  But these 200 gr TXS are LONG!

My rifle has a long throat so I can and usually do seat out a ways - to 3.45" OAL with some brands.

But I'm wondering what performance can be expected from these bullets.  I have H4831, IMR 4831, Rx 19 and 22, H 450, and H and IMR 4350.  I plan to start with the Rx powders.

Can I get speeds similar to the conventional (Nosler pt, Speer, Woodleigh) bullets or will this long bullet take up too much powder space?

This is for a bison hunt. My guide really doesn't like Nosler Partitions and the law requires I use a minimum 200 gr bullet.  Noslers and Speer Hot Cores shoot really well for me but I'm trying these X bullets to make my guide happy.

 Have to admit I still struggle with the concept of pushing such hard objects down my barrel - hence very limited experience with Barnes X of any type.

Any advice on the 200 gr .308 TSX is appreciated.

[Lloyd Smale]

cant understand why an outfitter would be against partitions. Ive yet to see one fail in any way in any caliber.

[Smokin Joe]

The Barnes is really long. Try the Swift A-Frame:

http://www.swiftbullets.com/a-frame/rifle-bullets/30-caliber/30-caliber-200-grain-af.html

[Thebear_78]

I am a super barnes TSX fan.  I would probably recomend a lighter bullet, the 168gr TSX is an amazing bullet in the 300 Mags.   The weight requiretment for bison considered the 200gr TSX will work fine, and penetration should be excellent.  I have found that you can't usually run a tsx of the same wieght as fast as a a conventional style bullet.  THats why they usually say to drop down a few grs in a barnes for equal performance.   The extra bearing surface of those long bullets and the amount they eat up of internal capacity is the culprit.  That said try powders on the slower end of the burn rate, that really tends to help keep pressures down and velecities up.   Good Luck on your bison tag.

[Dand]

Joe, yeah my guide prefers the Swift A's but I choked on the price and I stumbled into a good deal on the TXS.  I already had a big stock of Noslers and Speer Hot Cores as I use them for Moose hunting.  I can get .75 to 1.25 at 100 for 5 shots on either bullet.  Some times much better - one load with the Speers had 3 shots in about 3/8 inch - best group I ever shot. hard to switch when I get that performance.

My guide claims he's seen several problems with the 200 Nosler on brown bears. I wonder if his clients were using some of the super mags and met bears at real close range. He said they are too brittle, shatter and don't perform well.  I have never had a problem but I usually use 180 parts on moose and caribou. I may have got one moose with a 200 hot core - not sure. Ended up in the field one season with a mixed box of practice rounds by mistake.  At 40 yards on a small moose they worked fine - went down on second shot in the chest - first shot went way high as we were bobbing around in a boat.

Guess I should break down and try the Swifts - small cost compared to the whole hunt.

Any more advice is welcome.

[Bigeasy]

Dand-

Big animal = Tough bullet.  A TSX, Nosler PT, A-Frame, Fail Safe, all will work fine.  No reason to over think it.  Since you have a supply of the 200 grain TSX, I would load some up with the bullet seated to take advantage of your long throat, provided they feed properly from your magazine.  Pick 3 or 4 loads out of a reliable loading manual, concentrating on upper level loads for good velocity.  See what groups best in your rifle, and that's your load.  No Bison is going to know the difference between a 100 fps faster A-Frame bullet and a slightly slower TSX.  1/2 inch groups are nice, but for the game and distances you will be shooting,  anything under 2 inch groups will get the job done.

Larry

[jedman]

   I agree 100 % with what Bigeasy just said, Try the TSX they are great bullets.     Jed

[Smokin Joe]

My guide really doesn't like Nosler Partitions and the law requires I use a minimum 200 gr bullet.

Where did the 200 grain law come from?

I'd use the Barnes 180 and a dose of RE-19, 22 or 25 and never look back.

[Siskiyou]

http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/300WinMagWeb1.pdf

.300 Winchester Magnum
Bullet Weight: 200 gr Case Trim Length: 2.610" S.D. 0.301
Bullet Style: TSX FB Primer: Federal GM215M B.C. 0.423
COAL: 3.340" Barrel Length: 24"
Case: Winchester Twist Rate: 1:10"
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load
Powder (grains) (fps) (grains) (fps) Density (%)
♦ IMR 4831 60.5  2556   66.5 2750    94
MagPro 69.0      2625  78.5       2895   98
Bullet

Must admit that I have never loaded for a 300 Magnum.  But I did load the Barnes TTSX bullets for the 270.  They are long, but they are the most accurate hunting bullet is have loaded.  I must admit to calling my brother for additional Barnes Data not on the web because he has their manual.  Must have been sleeping on it because he immediately gave me addition data.

A note on Mag Pro, I read that it is not tempature sensitive what might be critical in the frozen North.

Follow down on this link regarding powder and primer testing under different tempatures.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/resources/newsletters/july-2010-barnes-bullet-n/

[necchi]

My experiance with the TTXS is they don't like to be loaded close to the lands, follow Barnes advise and start .050 off or MORE, I got best groups in the 708 and 120grns going .120 off the lands, not a typo,,(.120). That's actually seated to the center of the top ring of the bullet to the top of the case neck, and yes my gun does have a long throat.
That load gives me MOA at 200, haven't shot them farther (yet), sorry no chrony (yet).

[Dand]

thanks for added info. I already went to Barnes for their loads posted. Don't have access to MagPro here in remote AK.  But I have H and IMR 4831 and lots of experience with both - even have the H 4831SC.  Thanks for the note on staying OFF the lands.  I thought I'd read/heard that before. I'll take it to heart and start cautious. I've also emailed Barnes for added powder suggestions.

I also emailed Alliant and Hodgdon for their suggestions.

Last night I broke down and ordered a box of the Swift A frames and found a box of Remington factory ammo loaded with them - on SALE even! 

Nearly have every brand of .308 cal 200 gr now - well no Acubonds or Norma but all the rest. If the Woodleighs shoot well I may stick with them but my first try was very mediocre - probably too light a load. I seem to get better accuracy as I move up the the warm end of the scale.

Joe, I suspect the 200 grain rule came from way back when most AK hunters carried a 30-06 with factory ammo.  I have begun to think I should ask them to reconsider that rule with the new powders and bullets available.  But it might open a can of worms they don't want to deal with.  

Truth is my guide isn't keen on the 300 mag either - he prefers fatter bullets. I thought about using this excuse to get a 375 but with the cost of the whole hunt I hate to plow a lot of $ into a 1 hunt gun. Tho my son has offered to take over my beloved 300 for me. At 12 I think he's a little ambitious even tho he's fired a couple rounds in it.  And I've had friends take buff with a 356 win and other moderate level rounds.

thanks for the comments - more are welcome.

[Smokin Joe]

In any case, good luck on your hunt!!

[Dand]

Barnes emailed me all the pages from their current manual for 300 win mag.  Very nice.  I didn't realize they have a new manual.  I have so many manuals I am beginning to lose track and haven't shopped for a new one for a little while.

I've loaded up some of those 200s with Rx22 tonight for a test drive. I've been getting really good accuracy with this powder and 180, 200 gr bullets. I'll have to set up the chrono soon and get an idea how they are moving.

thanks for the help folks.

Oh, last night I was prepping cases and found 3 of my Federal cases with split necks from shooting 72.5 gr Rx 22 and 200 gr bullets.  I decided to weigh my cases. There is a lot of variation by brand.  The Federals were in the 250 gr range,  Winchester about 240,  from long experience with Rem I have found from 230 to 240 gr,  3 Norma cases ran 215 gr,  and 2 PMC cases were around 250 gr.   That much variation no doubt affects the amount of case capacity and what max charge would be.  In ADDITION to brass hardness.

I have seen some of  my loads show signs of too close to max when I had heavier Rem brass. 
So for this exercise I'm starting mid range and for my Fed cases I set the max for Rx22 at 72 grains.  I should check again in the summer when its warmer.

I'm eager to compare similar loads in my Rem brass which is what I usually hunt with.

all for now.