Questions about reloading for Handi rifles

[haleconst]

I have 2 handi rifle 243's for my kids, I was going to download a round for my 6 year old to hunt with. I full sized and trimmed the cases loaded 3 rounds for testing, the action would not shut on any of them tried them on the other rifle, same thing. I went through about 150 pcs of brass and finally found 16 pcs that the action would close on. Is this common for the handi rifle? I thought it was my dies but tried 3 different sets all with same out come. I did get a down loaded load worked up for her that shoots great with alot less recoil, but it is a pain when not all of them will chamber. Any insight would be great. Thanks in advance.
David

[cwlongshot]

My first impression is that your cases are not properly resized.

Resize another and before anything else see if it will chamber and the action properly close. If it does, incert a bullet and try again. NO powder or primer.  This is now your setup dummie for loading bullets in this chamber. 

There is nothing inherently different form this chamber than another.

CW

[Slufoot]

Are you using a full length sizer die?
With the ram up, screw the die down until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram and give the die another turn down, your cases should now chamber.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[thejanitor]

Had that same problem with my 7-08 at one point, I didn't have the die touching the shell holder. Now I make sure the die is all the way down touching even with a hint of pressure. Like CW said try brass alone in it first just to make sure it isn't a bullet seating depth issue. Good luck, thejanitor

[revbc]

Great advice from these guys.  Just wanted to chime in and say, follow CWs instructions.  You either have not set the shoulder back enough or the OAL is to long.  My 7mm08 has a really short throat for a handi, it's real easy to have a bullet touching/jamming the rifling.

Bobby

[necchi]

 I'm with everyone that's pretty sure it's a sizing issue, because you have 2 riflles the brass won't fit in.

If I had trouble like that;
 I'd have the barrel out and in a held by the lug in a vice. If it's an ejector another rail or pipe clamp to hold the ejector in,(carefull here, the ejector needs to be held "down" a bit too), then try fitting your FL sized cases in the chamber by hand.
 That way you can SEE what's going on, 
 If they don't fit well you can hold a cartridge over a candle too "soot" the case and bullet then see where it's touching the chamber. Is it the neck or the body or maybe the bullet jammed ?
 

[Frank V]

Great advice from these guys.  Just wanted to chime in and say, follow CWs instructions.  You either have not set the shoulder back enough or the OAL is to long.  My 7mm08 has a really short throat for a handi, it's real easy to have a bullet touching/jamming the rifling.

Bobby

If you set the shoulder back, haven't you just created headspace?

I size just to not touch the shoulder (about 1/16" short) & have very few chambering problems. you can see just how far your die is sizing the case by putting just a bit too much lube on the neck. The sizing die will leave a small ring of lube where it stops sizing.
Frank

[thejanitor]

"Headspace...." Not if the cases are stretched and the shoulder has moved foreward, you are just putting it back where it belongs.

Touch the shell holder to the die when you FL resize and they will fit. Handis don't all like Neck sized brass, some do but mine all work best if I touch the shell holder to the die and even have a very slight pressure.  Using a die the way it is intended doesn't create excess headspace unless the chamber is stretched -then full length sizing could make a shell the proper size but SEEMING to be too short.
Just my thoughts....
thejanitor

[D Humbarger]

where did you get the brass?  Range pick up? Then it was more than likely shot through an semi-automatic.   If so you will need sb dies to get it back to specs.

[ironglow]

  A related question;
   I have two rifles in .223 Rem..an NEF and a Savage 11G...
  Would it be best to keep separate caches of brass, to be used exclusively with each rifle ?

[quickdtoo]

My method of sizing brass for H&Rs is real simple, adjust the full length sizing die into the press an 1/8 of a turn at time and size the brass until the brass is flush with the chamber mouth, you have to push down on the extractor to slip the rim past the claw on rimless rounds to check it, ejectors should drop down by themselves with the action all the way open.  

Normally with hunting loads in bottlenecked rounds, you'll more than likely have to push the shoulder back to reload the ammo, you can check that real easy by rechambering brass after it's been fired before it's resized, if it won't lock up completely leaving a gap between standing breech and the barrel which you can see light thru at the top of the barrel, won't eject or is hard to break open on an extractor barrel, it needs to be full length sized just enough to fully chamber which normally is flush with the chamber mouth, I use a straight edge across the chamber to check it.

Tim

[haleconst]

where did you get the brass?  Range pick up? Then it was more than likely shot through an semi-automatic.   If so you will need sb dies to get it back to specs.

All of the brass is once fired out of either of the handi's or out of my old TC Encore. None of the brass was range pickup. All of them were full length sized.
I will try again setting my die 1 turn past the shell holder to see if that works and check to see if the bullest need to be seated a little more.
Thanks for all the info.

[gcrank1]

FWIW, without a case in the ram, bring the handle down, ths raising the ram, and screw the sizing die down firmly onto the shell holder. Now lube a case lightly and run it in. With the ram fully up and holding pressure on the handle, look to see if now you have a gap between the shell holder and die bottom. Sometimes your rig will have enough spring in it to not really fully resize. If this is your situation, you need to keep slightly adjusting the die down, on a new to resize case, until you get just get rid of the gap.
Then wipe the lube off and try chambering up. They should fit.
When you reload them, try fit again as mentioned previously. Maybe you used a reloading manual for an OAL? If they dont fit the OAL is too long for the ojive of the bullet you are using. This is normal to tweak. Turn the seating stem in bit by bit until it chambers up, then maybe just a tad more to be sure. Do about 5 this way, step by step, checking as you go, tweaking if neccessary, until you are confident you have the fitting combination, then lock the rings down, take some notes (you have a reloading notebook, right?) and stuff some more up, checking periodically that they chamber up, and you're good to go.

[cwlongshot]

ALL great advice, I couldn't add anything to what was suggest.

What I will say is just to clarify what your doing the way you size cases now. The janitor touched on it, you are pseudo NECK SIZING, NOT full length sizing. Even thou your likely using a FL sizing die, the way you have it set up, its only partially sizing your brass. Setting the die to touch the shell holder as so many suggested IS FL resizing. Now in your case, with your brass it IS MOVING the shoulder. But that's because what ever chamber it was fired in was a bit long. With correctly st up dies you would be CORRECTING that, NOT creating a problem. The problem exists.

Now this is only when using brass from that chamber in your handis. If you prefer to not work your brass so much I understand, keep that brass with that rifle and buy new brass for the handis and keep it separate. The brass form the problem chamber, will survive better sizing as you have been. As you have found out it just doesn't work with the handis.

I set up my dies as Tim does, I set up my dies to fit my firearms chamber. I make a dummy for EACH bullet as I suggested to you. I label that dummy and keep it in the die box. Records are something ALL LOADERS should be doing. ALL my loads are numbered and logged. Gcrank1 is spot on here!!

Good luck, and safe loading!

CW

[nicholst55]

I am frequently frustrated with some of the problems people have adjusting sizing dies.  While it certainly isn't rocket-science, it does seem to have a lot of people dazed and confused.

This is the method that I use, and it works flawlessly:  http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2009/02/19/setting-up-a-full-length-sizing-die/  I own a Wilson (or other brand) of case gauge for every cartridge that I load for which they are available.  They are inexpensive and greatly simplify die setup; either the case drops into the 'Go' portion of the gauge, or it doesn't.

What a case gauge won't do:  they won't tell you the exact amount that you are setting the case shoulder back; some folks obsess over this, and sometimes rightly so.  You will need other tools to measure that with.

[Papa Jack]

  A related question;
   I have two rifles in .223 Rem..an NEF and a Savage 11G...
  Would it be best to keep separate caches of brass, to be used exclusively with each rifle ?

 IN my Opinion...( for what thats worth ) I would and do keep fired brass separate from one gun to another in like calibers.
 Simply mark the containers with the gun ID so you know where that brass came from.
 Not all chambers are the exact same,  ( kinda like finger prints ) so each fired brass is going to be a different dim. .
I use the Wilson,forster,lyman case gauges, they are handy, and take away some of the guess work in case sizing,but at nearly $30.00 each now days, I won't be buying too many more.
 Another handy tool is The "Stoney Point " ( Now sold by Hornady ) case headspace gauge. This tool fastens to a set of calipers and measures the distance from the center line of the case shoulder to the base of the case.  Using this tool you can measure the slightest difference is change made to your sizing die....
   The less you work the brass back and forth sizing, the longer life it will have......   "PJ"