Author Topic: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work  (Read 873 times)

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Offline Tommyt

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Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« on: November 22, 2010, 01:45:22 AM »
NEW YORK – Israel will likely take Obama and Clinton’s $3 billion offer in exchange for a settlement freeze, but don’t expect a peace deal. What might succeed is a dramatic step not by the Israelis, but by the Palestinians, says Leslie H. Gelb.

What on earth are Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama hatching up for the Middle East this time? Believe it or not, the secretary of state and the president are offering Israel $3 billion of front-line jet fighters, mostly free, if it freezes some as yet unspecified settlement construction in the West Bank for 90 days. Their aim is to restart peace talks with the Palestinians. And wait until you hear this one: They are promising never again to ask Israel for another such freeze. This “strategy” tosses away all their bargaining leverage up front before Israel even starts negotiating.

U.S. officials say their bosses believe that this “new” freeze—as opposed to the freeze that failed a month ago—will trigger the elusive peace deal between the Palestinians and Israelis. But it won’t. That is, it won’t unless the Palestinians are prepared to put their own dramatic peace offer on the table, the way President Sadat of Egypt did in his historic 1977 peace visit to Jerusalem. But they won’t.

The U.S. president and his secretary of state also are said by their subordinates to think that if they can, finally, create an Israeli-Palestinian peace, that will dissipate vicious anti-Americanism and even terrorism throughout the Muslim world. But it won’t. Anti-Americanism and terrorism among Muslims rests far less on what happens with Israel and far more on how and when American combat ends in the Middle East and upon improving how our Muslim allies treat their own people.

When Obama and Clinton launched this latest round of peace talks almost three months ago, it rested on their judgment that the parties were truly “serious” about compromise. They did not know anything more concrete than that. And so, predictably, the talks flopped after only three weeks. Israel’s nine-month freeze had expired on settlement building, and the Palestinians walked out of the negotiations. As far as I’m able to learn, the two American leaders don’t know anything more about what the two sides will do now—even if the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu approves the overly generous offer from Washington. As I stressed only two months ago, this is extremely unwise. It makes no sense to push the parties to the negotiating table with little prospect of success and a very good chance of another dangerous failure.

Two questions arise. Why aren’t the Israelis just saying “yes” right away? And why in heaven’s name is the Obama administration making this startlingly generous offer without good reason to believe the talks will succeed?

One reason for Israel’s hesitance or reluctance is that Netanyahu’s cabinet contains many hardliners wary of uncertain peace talks. Another is that the Obama-Clinton offer may not be as clear and precise as reported. There are loose ends about exactly what Israeli construction activity will be covered by the new freeze. Nor has it finalized how much of the $3 billion tab for the fighter jets will be borne by Israel. Bargaining also continues over certain U.S. security guarantees that may be part of the overall package. But the strong betting is that Israel will take the deal, if for no other reason than Washington is promising never to ask for another such freeze.

By offering this no-future freeze pledge and advanced military hardware, Obama and Clinton are essentially eliminating America’s future bargaining leverage over Israel. Why would they do such a thing?


Palestinian leaders should be emulating Anwar Sadat, the great Egyptian president who went to Jerusalem in 1977.

From the earliest days of his tenure, Obama has appeared mesmerized by the dream of creating harmony between Muslims and Americans. His speeches and private musings testify to this. Somehow, he’s got it in his head that the key to nirvana is to make peace between Israelis and Palestinians. In other words, he seems to believe that the main reason for Muslim hatred or dislike of America is its support for Israel and, in turn, Israel’s denial of a Palestinian homeland. Fix those problems, Obama seems to feel, and the walls of Muslim hatred will come tumbling down.

Without doubt, these feelings are part of the anti-American, anti-Israeli story among Muslims. But more important is Washington’s long history of support for people like the shah of Iran, the kings of Saudi Arabia, and the authoritarian presidents of Egypt. Personally, I don’t think American leaders have had much choice but to back these leaders. The alternatives were always far worse, far more extremist. But a price had to be paid for this realism, and America has been paying it. Also, whatever Americans may feel about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, America’s role is extremely unpopular among Muslims. These attitudes will not disappear, no matter what happens between the Israelis and Palestinians. That is one among many irritants.

Based on my reading of this torturous history, I would not try to start negotiating between Israel and Palestine by leaning on or bribing Israel for the umpteenth time. It hasn’t worked. It won’t work. What might succeed is a dramatic step not by the Israelis, but by the Palestinians. Their leaders should be emulating Anwar Sadat, the great Egyptian president who went to Jerusalem in 1977. His nation had been defeated in the 1973 war, and Israel occupied the entire Sinai Peninsula, a historic Egyptian territory. There was no prospect that Israel would return this land after Egypt had attacked Israel in 1973. But President Sadat took his pride and his great dream for peace with Israel and stood before the Israeli Knesset. In effect, he put his life, not to mention his popularity at home, on the line and conferred recognition and legitimacy upon the state of Israel. In return, Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt, every square inch.

His words are worth hearing again. “Yet today I tell you, and I declare it to the whole world, that we accept to live with you in permanent peace based on justice.” He added a warning about Palestinians: “In all sincerity I tell you that there can be no peace without the Palestinians. It is a grave error of unpredictable consequences to overlook or brush aside this cause.”

Today, President Abbas of the Palestinians and his Prime Minister Fayaad also can journey to the Knesset. And there, they can pledge acceptance of “a Jewish state of Israel.” Those very words could not help but unleash a positive Israeli response on the West Bank and even East Jerusalem. That act alone would shrink the haystack of hatred so that the two sides might find the needle of peace.

Leslie H. Gelb, a former New York Times columnist and senior government official, is author of Power Rules: How Common Sense Can Rescue American Foreign Policy (HarperCollins 2009), a book that shows how to think about and use power in the 21st century. He is president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20101122/ts_dailybeast/11103_obamasbribestoisraelformideastpeacewontwork_1

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Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 04:47:42 AM »
The  godless ones have never wanted peace. Their job for their master satan is to be a thorn in the side of Israel and they do it well. If the godless ones really want peace the solution is simple. Lay down your arms, quit murdering innocents, leave ALL of occupied Israel. Peace would be immediate and permanent. Bo and hill need to shut up. Let Israel build IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY, and quit feeding and arming the godless palis. Simple enough. POWDERMAN.  :o :o :o :o :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
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I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 06:53:28 AM »
Quote
most Americans wishing israel would knock it off and settle down.




tm. Thats my desire too, but first they need to clean house, remove all the squatters and trespassers from all of occupied Israel,  and destroy the abomination in Jerusalem. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 07:43:42 AM »
Israels going to keep doing what ever it takes to keep getting US money/military aid. In exchange for that the US gets to play empire builder in the region by increasing tensions with failed foreign policy that should never have been undertaken.  Leave Israel alone. Let them stand or fall. The oslo acord/agreement from the clinton days have failed, and no new plans have come down the pike from the last failed administrations. Only war will bring peace to that region.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 08:12:07 AM »
Its clear the Obama administrations policy in the ME is a complete and total failure. He promised change and all we have is the same level of US interevention resulting BS. The president is just trying to appease everyone. Let Isreal stand on its own and get us the heck out of this. When will this country ever learn from its mistakes??????
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Offline FourBee

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010, 08:38:26 AM »
Quote
by TM7 ~ They have no intention of refraining from building on occupied Palestinian Land...

Of course not TM7, that's Israel's own dirt.  The West Bank "IS" Israel. Period.....
You may not agree.  You may not believe.  But just set back a watch this play out.  That is; if we're all here after smoke clears. 
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2010, 10:20:42 AM »
You know they found Pharohs golden chariot wheels in the bottom of the Gulf of Aqaba, human and horse bones.  So, the promised land proves to have been promised to the Israelites.  Only one tribe left so to speak, Judah, or the Jews. 

Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2010, 11:23:17 AM »
FOURBEE. Ol tm knows that, he's just trying  for more converts for his godless brethren, he's made several here. It's plainly in the Bible and tm claims to know all about it but I reckon the koran says it different. God set Israels boundaries thousands of years ago. Unfortunately parts of Israel are now occupied by 5 godless nations. Can't wait for them to cleanse the land once and for all. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline FourBee

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 01:33:19 PM »
 
Quote
by Dixie Dude ~You know they found Pharohs golden chariot wheels in the bottom of the Gulf of Aqaba, human and horse bones.

    I Saw that !  Not exactly on the bottom, but atop a very wide saddleback ridge that runs all the way across the gulf, swept clean by the ocean currents, except for coral covered chariot and wagon pieces, oxen, horse, and human skelatel remains, and of course one of those two golden chariot wheels, of which, I've recently heard they've found the other one too.   Now they know that those two large granite pillars on each side of the gulf were set there by Israel when Solomon was King of Israel, marking the crossing as they had walked on dry ground.  FANTASTIC..... :D :D :D
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Offline FourBee

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2010, 01:51:33 PM »
 
Quote
by TommyT ~ Israel will likely take Obama and Clinton’s $3 billion offer in exchange for a settlement freeze, but don’t expect a peace deal.

Can you blame them ?  The sound of War Drums all around the Wagon Train would put any Wagon Master to Arms.   

Quote
Can't wait for them to cleanse the land once and for all. POWDERMAN.


PowderMan do you realize when that time comes, even Israel's Plow is going to be cleaned?  This ain't going to be no Sunday afternoon Picnic.  We'd better be takin notes of our lives and checkin it twice, cause it ain't gonna be nice.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 03:54:29 PM »
FOURBEE. YES, I know that, but I think Gods patience is about to run out. I'm not worried, the godless ones and their sympathizers should be though. I hope I live long enough to see that abomination in Jerusalem destroyed. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline FourBee

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 04:37:51 PM »
Quote
by powderman ~ I'm not worried,

I'm glad you're not.  I can't help it, but I am, and I do.   Job once said something like...'the things I feared most have come upon me.'   And that's kinda where I am.   Even Jesus prayed ~ 'let this cup pass from me. '   It ain't the here after I'm concerned about.  I've squared that away the best I can, but as the old saying goes....'It rains on the just and the unjust alike.'  I have already, and may have to go through some more adversities, but I sure don't want to.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 05:07:19 PM »
First let me say that I think obama is accomplishing just what his handlers(Soros and co.) told him to. The destruction of the American economy and American supremacy, and the drift toward one world government.


Now, I'll tell you that I think we are, because of that, closer to Armageddon than ever.  
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Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2010, 03:27:10 AM »
Quote
God of the Christians is not a real estate agent...don't try to make him one...



tm. As you already know, God owns it all. His covenant concerning Israel and her posessions was made with Abraham and Issacc. There is nothing in the nt to say that God changed his mind. Like you said, your Bible is not ours, and as you have also said, your god is not ours. POWDERMAN.  :o :o :o :o :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2010, 03:36:50 AM »
Yep, Jesus said Jerusalem would be in the hands of the gentiles for a season, then it would return to the Jews.  When that happens, He said the end was near.  The only thing is the Jewish temple has not been rebuilt. 

Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2010, 04:33:59 AM »
Quote
The only thing is the Jewish temple has not been rebuilt. 



DIXIE DUDE. True, but that can't happen as long as that abominable mosque stands. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline FourBee

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2010, 05:24:22 AM »
Quote
by TM7 ~ Show me where Jesus said we are to kill Palestinians,

TM7 ;  I'm only puting this up that others may know the truth. 
 
Revelation 19:11 of the Holy Bible
11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12  His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13  And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14  And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2010, 05:57:27 AM »
 Israel is the land thief! Until 1948 there was no such place as Israel! We helped the European Jews steal Arab land.
   I would like to see both sides wiped off the face of the earth!

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2010, 10:27:20 AM »
I don't think that is entirely true.  The Brittish started allowing Jews to settle in Palestine in the 1920's and 30's.  The first wave bought the land, drained swamps, cleared fields etc.  Basically they improved the area and modernized it.  Then they wanted their independence after WWII.  So, the area of modern Israel had majority Jews with Palestinians living in the West Bank area and Gaza.  They did take the West Bank in the 1967 war and started settling that area also.  The British promised the Jews after WWI that they would have the area west of the Jordan River and the Arabs would have the area east of the river (modern Jordan).  It is rightfully their ancestrial homeland promised to Abraham, Issac, and Israel about 2000 BC.  Abrahams illigitimate son Ishmael was promised the desert area southeast of Israel (Arabia) and that he would never get along with his brother or anyone else.   

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2010, 05:07:49 PM »
When the area was a  British protectorate, the Jews were bombing them just like the Pals are now doing the Jews!

Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2010, 05:20:42 PM »
Quote
The Brittish started allowing Jews to settle in Palestine in the 1920's and 30's.  The first wave bought the land, drained swamps, cleared fields etc.  Basically they improved the area and modernized it.



DIXIE DUDE. Yes, they did. Land flourished everywhere they went. look at what the  palis have done to Israel, trashed it, made slums. Not hard to see whose side God is on. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2010, 05:39:58 PM »
When the area was a  British protectorate, the Jews were bombing them just like the Pals are now doing the Jews!
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Offline powderman

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Re: Obama's Mideast Bribes Won't Work
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 04:26:15 AM »
Quote
It is questionable if Ishmael is illegitimate compared to his younger half brother born from his father's sister. Also peculiar that inheritence rights in that region traditionally go to the oldest son; but such are the musings of 'chosen' race doctrinaires.


Only to you. Nothing peculiar about the inheritance either, Abraham did according to Gods will, not customs. God plainly intended to make his covenent with Isacc, not ishmael, Abrahams illegitimate son. Seems pretty plain to me. POWDERMAN.  :o :o :o :o :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm