Author Topic: Loading Cannon Cartridges (Read 17968 times)

Double D · « **on:** October 28, 2003, 05:31:50 AM »

C. Peter Jorgensen Editor of the Artilleryman has kindly granted us permission to post copies of an article published in the Artilleryman in 1988 on how to make cartridges for the Cannon.

Thanks Pete!

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** July 03, 2009, 01:34:11 PM »

Getting ready for tomorrow and making charges for the 1841 Cairo gun. I had to make up some gear for rolling cartridges. Using the guidelines from the Artilleryman article, here's what I came up with. The measurements here are for a 1 inch bore.

First I cut a length 3/4 copper pipe. I deburred the pipe inside and out. Then I weighed out a charge and put it in the sandwich bag pushed it down the pipe. I measured the depth of charge in the pipe and marked that on the outside of the pipe. Then I added a mark the diameter of the pipe to the first mark and figured the total length including the fold over on the end. For this charge that measurement was 3 inches.

With my cutting board and cutting wheel I cut a 3 inch wide strip. I already knew from past experience, I would get three wraps.

I rolled the foil around the copper pipe former using the long mark as a guide and folding the end over as I went.

When the entire cartridge was rolled around the former, I used a dowel to compress the folds.

Next with the powder in the corner of the sandwich bag I inserted it in the pipe.

After powder “bulb” was in the pipe I twisted the bag and cut off the excess.

Then with the dowel, I pushed the powder bag down into the foil cartridge, pushing the now loaded cartridge off the pipe former.

I twisted the top of the foil cartridge closed and trimmed the foil tail with scissors.

Next step, smoke and fire!!!!

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2009, 04:43:48 PM »

DD, My approach is similar to yours for my 1" bore. I use a length of white PVC pipe cut to length of cartridge 1 - 2 inches.
Wooden dowel fits inside of pipe. I roll the foil on the dowel, fold end over and tamp down. Add powder,
fold foil over the top, insert dowel and tamp again. It fits nicely inside of a film canister until it's needed.
On the top of the film canister is a colored garage sale label with the powder charge weight written down.

Everybody probably has a favorite way of doing this and there are as many ways of doing it as there are stars in
the night sky. Some are simple and some are very elaborate.

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2009, 06:00:00 PM »

That's the deal with this board, we all have ideas how to something. We may have worked something out, and then someone comes alongs and shares their way and does the same thing, better.

I have learned a lot from this board.

BoomLover · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2009, 08:29:52 PM »

Used a 1 1/4" dowel to wrap the foil (3-4 wraps) around when making packet charges for a 1 1/2" bore. Used 1 1/2 oz. Fg, twisted and trimmed both ends, and picked up another idea, using a 18 count egg carton as secure transport for all the rounds we needed! Works great, and got some made up for the 4th! Hope everyone has a safe and happy Holiday! BoomLover

navygunner · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2009, 03:02:10 PM »

I haven't been using the baggies as my artillery unit doesn't use then but I just might try that. I like the idea of using the egg carton crate as a means of transport. I'm wondering if the plastic egg containers they use in the RV industry might also work.

NG

KABAR2 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2009, 04:09:34 PM »

Quote from: navygunner on July 04, 2009, 03:02:10 PM

I haven't been using the baggies as my artillery unit doesn't use then but I just might try that. I like the idea of using the egg carton crate as a means of transport. I'm wondering if the plastic egg containers they use in the RV industry might also work.

NG

Some believe that placing BP in a plastic bag and then inside aluminum foil sets up the possibility of an electrical field, perhaps cannonmn can chime in on this.
I never used plastic in mine either, but there was no need as they were being used right away.

Victor3 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2009, 12:29:55 AM »

This is the 1" setup I use. I originally made these tools up to do nitrated paper cartriges, but foil works just as well.

The parts are made from scrap plastic I had. The white rod is teflon and has a slight taper on it to make it easy to remove the formed tube...

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2009, 03:34:49 AM »

Victor3, That is a good looking setup. I'll have to give it a try w/loading the ball into the foil.
Never would have thunk that one by myself. Thankyou for that tip.

navygunner · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2009, 06:17:48 AM »

That is a sharp fixed round, have you tried loading shot for a cannister round??

geo

Victor3 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2009, 06:40:44 PM »

I've tried it with shot (bird and buck) using a cardboard disk between powder and shot. It works okay, but I was underwhelmed with the performance. A cylinder bore 12 ga shotgun does better.

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2009, 06:44:01 PM »

Is the ball undersized? Any problem with tightness loading?

Victor3 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2009, 10:17:59 PM »

I made my ball mould .975", bore is 1". No problem loading, even with a few wraps of foil.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:17:10 PM »

Okay, so does it shot better with or with out the ball in foil?

Victor3 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:52:18 PM »

I haven't done any accuracy testing between ball in/ball out. I may try next time out.

Having it in the foil does prevent the ball from rolling out when I shoot down into a wash at one of my shooting spots though.

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2009, 04:37:42 AM »

Quote from: Victor3 on July 05, 2009, 11:52:18 PM

Having it in the foil does prevent the ball from rolling out when I shoot down into a wash at one of my shooting spots though.

That may be an issue in Montana.

subdjoe · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2009, 05:16:58 AM »

Am I correct that the only purpose of the plastic bag is to prevent grains of powder from getting into the folds of the foil and smouldering?

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2009, 08:23:20 AM »

Quote from: subdjoe on July 06, 2009, 05:16:58 AM

Am I correct that the only purpose of the plastic bag is to prevent grains of powder from getting into the folds of the foil and smouldering?

That's correct. It's only a solution to a problem that occured.

subdjoe · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:57:06 AM »

Quote from: Double D on July 06, 2009, 08:23:20 AM

Quote from: subdjoe on July 06, 2009, 05:16:58 AM
Am I correct that the only purpose of the plastic bag is to prevent grains of powder from getting into the folds of the foil and smouldering?

That's correct. It's only a solution to a problem that occured.

Thank you. Since the back end of the cartouche that we worm out goes into the sponge bucket, that isn't really a concern. I believe our reenacting club does not want us using plastic because some who have tried it have had moderate sized globs of melted plastic/foil amalgams going at least 30 yards downrange. Kind of amazing what can survive the blast and heat.

Double D · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2010, 03:05:51 PM »

Did a test today of a cartridge and thought I would share it with you.

This is 200 grains Fg in a foil cartridge for my one inch cannon.

I put a fuse in the top and lit.

Click to see video. Link below for thos who can't open the video.

http://www.fototime.com/BA3CF7871870867/conv.wmv

Here are five frames spaced 1/30 of a second apart.

This kind of emphasizes the warning: HANDLE WITH CARE!

Articifer Tom · « **Reply #20 on:** November 27, 2010, 05:12:33 PM »

I've shot with baggie for years . found out early that using heavy or zip-lock type baggies can melt and clog the vent hole. Although it does not happen often punching it clean can be a pain. Our re-eact'g unit and myself only use the cheap thin fold flap sandwich baggies. And the tied knot is place carefully to the side wall off the foil cylinder and the location marked with a line that must be down when loaded. We always find that the residue of plastic will be on the foil wad wormed out , never having vent problems or down range wads.

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2010, 08:43:12 PM »

Neat little video. One can never be too careful. Thanks, DD.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #22 on:** November 28, 2010, 03:22:41 AM »

Hmmmmm.

retired.

snowed in.

cabin feaver?

cool video.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #23 on:** November 28, 2010, 11:02:37 AM »

I have never used a plastic baggie when making up powder charges. If the stated reason for doing it is to keep from having unburned powder caught in the folds of foil cartridges, no one has been able to explain to me how that would happen in a properly made foil bag. If the reason for doing it was to keep moisture out of the powder, or to keep the powder from contacting the aluminum foil for some chemical reason during prolonged storage, I could understand that. My cartridges generally don't last longer than a week after I have made them up. My two cents worth.

rmagill · « **Reply #24 on:** November 28, 2010, 02:28:40 PM »

I use baggies, but I also spray the hell out of everything involved with static guard, may not really help, but makes me feel better.
Bob

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #25 on:** November 28, 2010, 06:44:42 PM »

Quote from: rmagill on November 28, 2010, 02:28:40 PM

I use baggies, but I also spray the hell out of everything involved with static guard, may not really help, but makes me feel better.
Bob

Adding fuel to the fire...MSDS for static spray

Components Percent
Alcohol Denat < 80
Isobutane < 10
Hydroflourocarbon 152A < 20
Propane < 2.5

Auto-ignition Temp: 685.4*F (362.8*C)

Auto-ignition Temp of BP: 867*F (464*C)

Considering this, though it may be slightly less likely to have a static charge ignition, you've increased the likelihood of auto ignition and added another fuel to the mix, not to mention possibly made your powder damp if you spray excessively. I wouldn't bother with it, but then, I tend to be in the no plastic school.