LBT 4-Cavity vs Lee 6-Cavity

[Terbltim]

Hey Veral,
I mentioned that I might post this and got your tacit okie-dokie so here goes...

I got a friend to join me in an experiment recently.
I used a Lee 6-Cavity mold and he used a LBT, 4-Cavity mold and we used the same pot and ladle and each made a pile of bullets until we were scraping the bottom of the big 35# pot.
Not only did he make somewhat more bullets than I did, (because he didn't have any stalled moments in his operation,) nearly all of his were usable bullets while I had many culls (even with our very lenient judging.)
I can't say how many bullets we made cause we had two big piles and didn't feel like counting them.
The difference was easily established in our minds. (Maybe weighing them would really tell the tale. Hmmmm.)
Between ease of operation and better resulting bullets the cheaper model's attraction is rapidly diminished.

We challenge others to give a try at similar tests and see what you get.
Maybe just to see how many bullets they can make an hour with 1-hr devoted to each mold. That would be a tell-all too.
The real spike is when the bullets are sorted.
Big difference!

By the way, we had already noticed an accuracy difference, thus:
All of this is with the Lee C452-300-RF cast bullet vs the LBT 454-300gr WFN-GC with very similar nose lengths and same sizing dies, lube (LBT Blue Soft) etc.
At velocities below 1100-fps there was no important difference for us.
For 45 Colt loads up to about 1200-fps the difference was hard to establish until some distance is added to the situation. At 50 yards the groups began to get wider with the Lee bullets than with the LBT-WFN bullets of same caliber, weight and load, (very similar in appearance too.)
In the 454 revolvers, at higher power (over 1250-fps on up to 1700-fps) the difference is much easier to see.
In all cases targets at 25 yards do not tell you much.
At the 50-yard board is where things start becoming obvious.
Even with our flinching from the higher power we saw a notable difference in the way these bullets printed groups. Lee bullets were almost useless beyond 50 yards. The LBT bullets could be kept on a notebook paper at 100-yds with iron sights and eyes going dim.
In all cases where a difference was plain to see, the Lee bullets made wider groups.
(Some might refer to these groups as "patterns".)

Since our shooting is normally at velocities below 1300-fps (no matter what cartridge & load) we seldom have a problem with either bullet for shooting deer, (for which 1000 to 1200 fps is plenty with 300gr bullets of any type.)
As with anything, the first order of business is to make a good [accurate] shot.
Lots of power doesn't help much when a bad shot is made.
Therefore, we make loads that we can shoot well.
I don't think the deer can tell the difference when a 45+ caliber hole is punched through the heart/lung intersection.

Additional info: All the guns used have been "tweaked" for cast bullet shooting, (4 guns in all.)

Anyone else have similar comparisons?

[Veral]

  Delightful challenge, indeed.  Your experiment is especially interesting in the accuracy section, because you were using a bullet which Lee 'inovated' from the LBT lineup!  As they did the tumble lube concept, and several other bullets.

  If any of you do an accuracy test with any Lee design which doesn't look very similar to my designs the accuracy difference will really be painful.



  But they haven't tried to 'inovate' my quality!


  I don't believe I've ever mentioned in print the fact that my horribly dissapointing experiance with Lee molds and bullets designs was the main reason I started LBT 30 years ago.  I did try molds from all the other makers too, with little better results, mostly due to poor bullet design.   When I decided to start making molds I nitpicked every other moldmakers molds for any flaws or weakness's, and designed them all OUT of LBT molds.  I guess I've never mentioned that in print before either, but it only makes sense for one trying to make an improoved product to improove every detail possible, and use competitive products to find those weakness's.

[Smokin7mm]

As a testimony to LBT molds.  Several years ago I purchased a Freedom Arms 41mag Silhouette model for shooting in competition.  Now I am one who believes that Revolvers should be shot with cast bullets.  I already had a Lyman 215gr SWC GC mold that a buddy of mine had picked up for his ruger 41.  I cast up a bunch of bullets and went to work load testing.  At the range the groups were horrible.  Five to six inches at 50yards.  I thought is it just me with this new gun.  I tried several different powders and various loads with the same results.  I purchased a scope mount for the gun to try to tighten thing up a bit and show the guns real potential.   Again Five to six inch groups.  I was fit to be tied.  These Freedom Arms revolvers are the cadilac of revolvers and the ultimate silhouette revolver and I have not known one to not shoot.  I was about ready to call Freedom Arms and give them a piece of my mine.  I figured I would try some jacketed bullets before sending it back.  About that same time I picked up a LBT 230gr WLN GC mold.  So off to the range with some jacketed loads and some loads cast with the LBT mold and lubed with LBT blue soft.  I shot the jacketed bullets first and they shot good so I move out to 100 yards and they proved acceptable for accuracy and I thought to myself well I might just have to break down and shoot jacketed in this gun.  I then ran some of the LBT bullets through and low and behold they printed a very nice five shot group at 100 yards in the 1.00-1.25" range and that was just a load I threw together for the first time.  The LBT molds are by far the easiest casting molds I have ever used.  Bullet drop out upon opening most of the time with some requiring a slight tap on the handle hinge pin.  Bullets fill out perfectly if I do my part and dont short the spru puddle.  I now have several LBT molds and they continue to be my favorite.  Thanks Verl
Bret

[TommyD]

I have similar experience comparing LBT moulds and other major manufacturers.
My Ruger super redhawk shoots most types of 300+ grain bullets well, but has problems with lighter bullets in the 250-260 grain range.

With the lighter bullets, they shoot fairly well at under 25 yards, but the groups open up into "patterns" at 50 yards and beyond. The "legendary" 255 grain "Keith" bullet does not do well in my revolver.

Veral made me a mould for a 260 grain LFN bevel base .452 bullet and the results are almost magical. This bullet in 45 Colt brass will give me 4 inch groups at 100 yards out of my Super Redhawk with a 2x scope. This bullet performs well with both a 940 fps load of Universal or a 1200 fps load of H110.

And what he says about the Soft Blue lube is true. No leading.
Tom