Obama/Congress deal on unemployment and taxes this week...?

[Conan The Librarian]

There sure is a lot of fuss about this week's "compromise" to give people a full three years of unemployment checks, and maintaining the current tax rate.

Was this a gain or a loss for Obama? Some say it's a gain, but he did it with out any class or sense of statesmanship at all. He was blunt about having it shoved down his throat.

I thought it made him look bad.

[MGMorden]

I'm conflicted on it.

Three years on unemployment is in fact, ridiculous IMHO.  That said, knowing a few people who were recently out of work, it is darned hard to find a job right now.

In short, I'm ticked, but I'm not sure whether I'm more ticked that unemployment benefits are being extended to 3 years, or that the economy is in such bad shape that it might actually be necessary.

[yellowtail3]

I think the President is a pragmatic fellow, but he won't get that much credit for it.

So far as extending what were temporary tax cuts... it would be good to have some details on this. How much would taxes have gone up and on whom, had they expired as originally intended? That would be useful info.

Of course, many who voted for them to be temporary, will call letting them expire 'class warfare', and you'll have peeps barely into the middle class or falling out defending tax cuts for millionaires. That's the truth. Whenever you hear class warfare... you're almost always hearing ideology at work.

[Dixie Dude]

Tax rates for the lowest wage earner were going from 10-15%.  Tax rate for the most wealthy were going up 3% from 35-38%.  Everyone else was in between.  If they were allowed to expire, the poor would have been paying more of their income.  It would have hurt them the most.  Capital gains tax were going from 15-20% which would have affected me more and 401k retirement accounts.  The dems were twisting and lieing about most of it.  The Bush tax cuts helped the poor more than the rich. 

[yellowtail3]

Tax rates for the lowest wage earner were going from 10-15%.  Tax rate for the most wealthy were going up 3% from 35-38%.  Everyone else was in between.  If they were allowed to expire, the poor would have been paying more of their income.  It would have hurt them the most.  Capital gains tax were going from 15-20% which would have affected me more and 401k retirement accounts.  The dems were twisting and lieing about most of it.  The Bush tax cuts helped the poor more than the rich. 

So, at what income/dollar level does that jump from 35 to 38% take place? And how much income would be subject to 38 rather than 35%?  That's the kind of numbers that would give context.

Seems to me the solution would have been to have the top rates expire - as originally intended in legislation - and extend the breaks for the little guy. I  understand Repubs don't want to do that.

[Dixie Dude]

Is is ethically right to tax a person making $250,000 at 38% and a person making $10,000 at 15%?  Why try to improve your self?  Why try to get and education or a job making more money if they are going to take more?  I've known a lot of people turn down promotions, because the higher tax rate would make them take home less money.  Is this right?  I believe in a flat tax with no deductions.  I also believe in a VAT tax on goods and services.  The poor would pay much less because they don't buy expensive new cars, homes or boats.  Rich would pay more, but it would be on what they want.  America used to be the land of opportunity, but if you keep taxing the rich, they will leave the country.  I know of two doctors who are getting out of the practice and moving to another country since they can make more money and have less paperwork because of the health care bill.  Some are going to retire early.  

I also think most poor are poor because they want to be.  They want the government handouts.  They drop out of school, do drugs, have babies, party.  They don't want to get serious about improving their situation.  I've seen it first hand.  I work for a utility company.  In the poor areas, 85% of the bills go to women, because if the woman has children and is not married, she gets assistance for housing, food stamps, lunches for her kids at school free, and utility bills paid for.  When a service man goes to their homes to repair something, there is almost always a man living there.  In the middle and upper class neighborhoods 85% of the bills go to men.  I worked at a grocery store and my kids have worked at them and you see people pay for their groceries with food stamps and get in Lincolns and Caddies all the time.  Help for the poor should be a hand up not a hand out. 

I showed my kids a spreadsheet I made.  It showed at today's minimum wage, if you saved 10% of your income for 30 years, in a plain passbook savings account, you would be a millionair with compounded interest.  Being frugal, hard working, and getting an education isn't that hard for the young.  They just don't have good role models protrayed today on TV and in schools. 

[Pat/Rick]

Kick the illegals out. Open jobs up for Americans.
No need to extend unemployment benefits over and over.
Free up taxpayers money by kicking illegals out to the tune of the 60+ Billion that goes for the social services per year that illegal aliens get.
STOP ALL foreign aid. No need to increase tax's.

[Cabin4]

Pragmatic! He is likely the most partisan president ever. The exact opposite of pragmatic.

[yellowtail3]

Pragmatic! He is likely the most partisan president ever. The exact opposite of pragmatic.

one can be partisan and pragmatic; the opposite of pragmatic would be doctrinaire or idealistic. Not to say that the Prez isn't a partisan - he clearly is, as are most presidents. But he's bigger than that. He could have just dug his heels in and died on the hill of 'tax 'em more!' but didn't. 

[Cabin4]

Pragmatic:
1.  advocating behaviour that is dictated more by practical consequences than by theory or dogma 
2.  philosophy  of or relating to pragmatism 
3.  involving everyday or practical business 
4.  of or concerned with the affairs of a state or community 
5.  rare  interfering or meddlesome; officious 

Partisan:
1. An adherent or supporter of a person, group, party, or cause, esp. a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance.
2. Military . a member of a party of light or irregular troops engaged in harassing an enemy, esp. a member of a guerrilla band engaged in fighting or sabotage against an occupying army.
3. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of partisans; partial to a specific party, person, etc.: partisan politics.
4. of, pertaining to, or carried on by military partisans or guerrillas.


I'm struggling with how someone can be a pragmatic president and be partisan. The president is the only elected office in the country, who's role is to represent ALL Americans. You cannot be a super partisan in this job and be pragmatic at the same time. He may be pragmatic within the many factions of the democrat party, but he is clearly a super partisan across all parties and people. I cannot remember in my lifetime a more super partisan president than Obama.

[Conan The Librarian]

I have erected a shrine to DixieDude in my home, and I am building a statue in his honor.

[Pass Lake]

Dixie Dude:  Yes, it is quite ethical to tax someone making $250k at a 38% rate and someone making $10k at a 15% rate.  I can live much more comfortably on the remaining $140K than on $8,500.  Why is it the high income earners want a VAT or Flat Tax?  Because they want to pay less in taxes.  So where is that lost revenue going to come from?  It will come from low income earners.  The current tax rates are much lower than they were in the 1960's.  Paying high taxes is a good thing-it means I am making a lot of money!  If you know 2 Drs leaving the country, it could be that they are bad or they want to go to practice medicine in  country with national health insurance.  I see more Drs from India and other foreign countries practicing here all the time.

I have many poor people living around me.  None are poor because they want to be or want government handouts.  They may be getting food stamps to survive.  And they aren't driving Caddies.  But by the grace of God go I.  I don't envy their lifestyle.

[powderman]

Kick the illegals out. Open jobs up for Americans.
No need to extend unemployment benefits over and over.
Free up taxpayers money by kicking illegals out to the tune of the 60+ Billion that goes for the social services per year that illegal aliens get.
STOP ALL foreign aid. No need to increase tax's.




AGREED Sir. I read that the total cost of the illegal criminals last year was just over $334 BILLION to Americas taxpayers. POWDERMAN.