Author Topic: big game movie ?  (Read 1225 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dave hall

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 417
  • Gender: Male
  • The Great .458
big game movie ?
« on: November 07, 2003, 11:10:46 PM »
evertime I watch THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS I wonder what  guns  they used there in real life. I know theres a exibit some were I saw it on history channels lost & found.has anyone seen the exibit or know what guns they used.  JUST CURIOUS. :?
NEF Handi SB2  .45-120 Sharps.
Stoeger Coachgun 20 Ga.
Ruger  SP101 4.2"  .357 Mag.
Rossi Ranch Hand (Mares Leg) 45 LC

Offline dclark

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 70
big game movie ?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2003, 06:46:03 AM »
There are a number of rifles used in that movie.  The bolt is a rifle I cannot Identify, but believe it to be in .303 British.  That would be consistant with the rifle used by the real hunter.

The single shot is a Farqueson design of unknown maker.  Could be a Gibbs from the cocking indicator, but not absolutely sure.

The double is a typical Holland & Holland design, but that has been copied by any number of makers.

dclark

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
big game movie ?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2003, 09:50:36 AM »
The bolt action that Val Kilmer used is, I believe a Lee martin in .303 British but the ammo he was using wasn't available at that time.  Should have had ammo with 215 gr. round nose bullets.  If you do a stop frame on the ammo when Val is loading the rifle in the beginning for the first lion hunt he is loading spire point bullets into the rifle.  The single shot that Val traded for is a Farqueson but what caliber isn't know as they were offered in many calibers.  The double is a Westly Richards and most likely in the .425 Westly Richards caliber.  Very popular at that time with professional hunters.  But does anyone know what make the double pistol used in the movie is?  I don't.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Yukon Jack

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 563
big game movie ?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2003, 10:17:57 AM »
Lawdog,
With the 425 Westley-Richards having a rebated rim and designed primarly for bolt actioned rifles, wouldn't that rule it out as the chambering for that rifle (during that time)?  I know it can be done, but at that time, would suspected it was a flanged cartridge chambering of some sort. :D

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
big game movie ?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2003, 09:41:17 AM »
Jack,

Don't have my books with me but I believe that the early version of the .425 Westly Richard was a rimmed cartridge.  I know many doubles were chambered for it.  It was a favorite of John A. Hunter for use on lions, buffalo and such.  My dentist has one, in fact he has a number of fine double rifles that every time I go over to his house I end up spending much time in front of his gun case wiping my mouth.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Yukon Jack

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 563
big game movie ?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2003, 06:35:37 AM »
Good enough for me.  I did not know that.  Learn something new everyday, by golly!  :D

Offline John Traveler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
The Ghost and the Darkness
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2003, 06:51:20 AM »
Gentlemen:

1.  The double barreled pistol appears to be a "Howdah" pistol supposedly popluar in India for backup use in hunting tigers from elephant back.

2.  The rifle Val Kimmer used appears to be a sporting version of the Lee-Metford, predecessor to the military Lee-Enfield series.

3.  The single-shot Farquarson looks like an original Farquarson, but may be of Wesley-Richards manufacture.

HTH
John
John Traveler

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
big game movie ?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2003, 07:28:41 AM »
John Traveler,

That's the name I was looking for Lee-Metford.  Got a friend that collects rifles that has one like it but he has been out of town and I couldn't get a hold of him.  Thank you for coming up with the name.  Also that Howdah pistol, do you know who made it or where it was made?  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline John Traveler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
HOWDAH
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2003, 07:39:54 AM »
Mikey,

Not sure who made the Howdah pistols, but as I recall from an American Rifleman article several years ago, they were peculiar to tiger hunting in India.  The name was a reference to an Indian region, I believe.  They were also made in 4-barreled versions.  Maybe a local fabrication from the Pakistani-India region famous for home-made guns?  I must hand it to those technical advisors in TGATD film.  They made every effort to show authentic period firearms.  Yeah, I can see it now:  BATF frowning with disapproval at someone that has a sawed off shotgun pistol....

John
John Traveler

Offline John Traveler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
HOWDAH
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2003, 08:04:00 AM »
A web search of "howdah" produced many pictures of classic Howdah guns.  They apparently date back to flintlock and percussion guns of the early to mid-1800's.

Apparently used by Indian nobility to hunt tigers from elephant backs.

English, French, Belgian big-name makers.  Various calibers, but generally of shot-gun-sized bores.

HTH
John
John Traveler

Offline Blackhawk44

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 981
big game movie ?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2003, 02:03:20 PM »
A howdah is the basket type compartment strapped to the elephants' back in which the hunting parties rode.  The pistols were meant for last ditch efforts to ward off wounded tigers who might like to jump into the howdah with you for a minute or two, hence the name.  A shortened version of the .577 was one of the more common calibers for these pistols.  The Lee-Metford or Lee Speed would be appropriate for someone of Patterson's stature, but is not clearly defined in his book.  The Farquarson is an unknow quantity to me although Frasier and Gibbs were prolific producers.  As an aside, the mounts of the actual Maneaters of Tsavo are on display in the Field Museum in Chicago and while having the damaged edges of the hides trimmed causes them to appear smaller than in life, a comparison with the recent Maneater of Mfwue nearby will give you a true feel of what a feat Patterson accomplished.