Author Topic: Quebec bans religion in daycare.  (Read 960 times)

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Offline powderman

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Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« on: December 21, 2010, 04:36:44 AM »
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Religion banned in Quebec’s government-funded daycares

by Patrick B. Craine



QUEBEC, December 20, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – The Quebec government has banned religion from the province’s system of subsidized daycares.
The new directives, released Friday by the province’s Ministry of Families and Seniors, stipulate that government-funded daycares must not offer any activity that aims to teach a belief, dogma, or practice of a particular religion.
“I want young Quebecers who attend our daycare services to do so in a spirit of openness to others and diversity,” said Quebec’s Family Minister Yolande James. She called the daycares “places of socialization and integration.”
As of June 1st, priests, rabbis, or other religious leaders will be barred from visiting the daycares, and it will be illegal to pray, do religious crafts, or sing religious songs – including many Christmas carols. Religious symbols, such as Christmas trees, crucifixes, and menorahs will be allowed as cultural expressions, but staff will not be permitted to explain their religious significance.
The new scheme will be enforced by government inspectors. In order to meet the increased work load the province will be tripling the number of inspectors.
The province’s subsidized network of daycares includes about 2,000 facilities, with space for about 120,000 children. James said about 100 of the daycares currently teach religion, and some will have to make substantial changes to their curriculum in order to comply. They will have until June 1st, or else their subsidies could be suspended, reduced, or revoked.
Unsubsidized daycares will still be permitted to offer religious instruction, but they must compete with the government programs, offered at $7 a day (with about $40 a day of funding per child).
The move, which apparently was sparked by concerns about Jewish and Muslim daycares, prompted threats of a constitutional challenge from the Muslim Council of Montreal. On Friday, the group called for a “united front” against the ban. “We view it as explicit discrimination against the rights of religious communities to educate their children in the values and principles they hold dear,” said their president, Salam Elmenyawi.
At the same time, the opposition Parti Quebecois have criticized the Liberal government for not going far enough, saying that the directive still allows discrimination in the selection of children for daycare spots based on a parent’s religion.
The government’s decision is part of a decades-long process of radical secularization in the formerly Catholic province. It follows the banning of religious instruction in schools, which came after the deconfessionalization of the school system in 2000.
Richard Decarie, spokesman for the Coalition pour la Liberté en Éducation (CLE), called the decision “totalitarian” and compared it to the “unilateral imposition” of the province’s highly-controversial ethics and religious culture program, which was mandated for all schools in September 2008. The province has tried to enforce the course even on private schools, though the Quebec Superior Court said in June that this violated religious freedom, calling the government’s actions “totalitarian.”
“This liberal government - and the previous PQ one - are acting as socialist ones when it comes to education, imposing rules upon private institutions - schools and daycare - that are against the fundamental ‘belief and religious’ right,” said Decarie. “Since the unilateral imposition of the ERC course - and as all socialist governments of the world - the Québec Government simply ignores the parental moral authority over their children.”
But Daniel Weinstock, a professor of philosophy at the Universite de Montreal, argued that the ban on religious instruction in schools is important for balancing the influence exerted on children by their families. “Religious communities and families hold sway over children through the household and through churches, mosques and synagogues,” he told the National Post. “I don’t see it as a problem for daycares and schools to be, in a way, a kind of counterweight to the hold that religious communities and families have over their children.”
Dr. Douglas Farrow, Professor of Christian Thought at McGill University, criticized the notion that public funding of schools should entail the abandonment of religious instruction, however.
“The Government of Quebec no longer believes, apparently, that the state exists in the service of civil society,” he told LifeSiteNews in an e-mail. “It does not seem to recognize that its part in vital matters of civil life, such as the pooling of resources for the care and education of children, is a secondary rather than a primary one. It thinks that in every partnership it makes - even those in which it reaps significant rewards by cooperating with parents in communal enterprises - it must be the controlling partner.”
“Rebuked by the Quebec Superior Court for its ‘tyrannical’ ways in imposing the Ethics and Religious Culture program on religious schools, [the government] nevertheless proceeds to ban religion itself from religious day-care centres that receive public funding,” continued Dr. Farrow. “That a few of these day-care centres are problematic, I do not doubt, but this is not the right solution. Why use a bulldozer to level a snow fort? The operators of this bulldozer may well find that they have once again mangled constitutional rights and freedoms.”
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 05:16:41 AM »
Quebec, being in Canada, doesn't have to obey our constitution, but this is at least in spirit a good move. 

The daycares are GOVERNMENT sponsored.  Funded by tax dollars.  I certainly wouldn't want my tax dollars going towards brainwashing and indoctrinating the minds of our young and impressionable.  I can honestly say that if I sent my child to a government-funded daycare and someone tried to shove religious doctrine down their throat, there'd be hell to pay.  You want to "spread the word"?  Do it in Sunday school where people are going there BY CHOICE.  It has no place in publicly funded establishments.


Offline crustylicious

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 06:15:28 AM »
Not surprised. Quebec/Quran- note the similarity!!! :D :D ;) ;)
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves, and the wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 07:20:53 AM »
Not surprised. Quebec/Quran- note the similarity!!! :D :D ;) ;)

Completely opposite.  As a matter of fact, state sponsored forcing of religion upon people is exactly the type of thing you'd expect from a Middle Eastern nation.  Just because they're pushing Pepsi instead of Coke don't change the basis of the act.  It's the western free world where people are finally throwing off the yoke of state sponsored religion.

Offline powderman

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 07:34:02 AM »
MGM. The sad  part about aetheists is that they lead their children to hell with them. POWDERMAN.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 08:06:11 AM »
MGM. The sad  part about aetheists is that they lead their children to hell with them. POWDERMAN.  :( :( :( :( :( :(

That's your right to believe that.  To me it holds about as much weight as saying that the children will be struck down by Thor's hammer if we don't teach them about him.  I'm sure depending on the place and time in the world we've been threatened with the hells of many other equally irrelevant mythological figures.  Personally, I find it much better to not be teaching our children superstitious nonsense that it's difficult to believe anybody could believe in modern times.  If we all had bones through our noses and were dancing around bonfires, then sure, but after the advent of modern science?  It saddens me just to think about it.

If you want to believe it and teach it to your own children, then go right ahead.  Just don't try to use our tax dollar supported institutions as a pulpit to spread your fairy tales.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 08:21:35 AM »
I find it so odd that the place should be for all and for the children to learn diversity won't allow it all. I'm a Baptist and have no problem when someone talks about not believing , being muslim , jewish or any other belief. I don't think many Christians feel threatened at all . I never felt my children hearing such was a problem. I don't mind a portion of my tax dollars teaching children the different beliefs , as long as they don't push one over the other. Those who don't believe are always the first to cry foul , but then they have no faith and it shows .
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 08:33:37 AM »
I find it so odd that the place should be for all and for the children to learn diversity won't allow it all. I'm a Baptist and have no problem when someone talks about not believing , being muslim , jewish or any other belief. I don't think many Christians feel threatened at all . I never felt my children hearing such was a problem. I don't mind a portion of my tax dollars teaching children the different beliefs , as long as they don't push one over the other. Those who don't believe are always the first to cry foul , but then they have no faith and it shows .

Most atheists wouldn't a problem with what you're describing either.

If you laid out an ACADEMIC STUDY PLAN, which said: Christians believe this, Muslims believe that, Judiasts this, Hindus that, etc, then there likely wouldn't be a problem (so long as it's kept to a class on religious studies or the like).  Heck mythology (mainly Greek and Norse) is one of my favorite topics.  Just because I don't believe in those systems doesn't mean they can't be interesting.  The problem is that very, very few in the religious community can accept the "don't push one over the other" clause that you mentioned.  In the end it usually just results in everybody being told to take their toys and go home.

Trust me, atheists don't tend to be the pushy ones when it comes to accepting a belief.  I'll leave you with an interesting sarcastic cartoon.  Any guesses as to the groups that actually DID do these things?  As they say "Science was able to build buildings, and it was able to build airplanes, but it took religion to bring the two together."




Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 08:39:26 AM »
Its Canada.They follow Americas lead.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 08:49:06 AM »
The cartoons are an example of poor taste not because they poke fun at those who did these things but because those who did them did not live by the Bible and its teachings . I won't judge you or your beliefts nor will I protect those who in the name of God or religion commited crimes and sins . If I had to pick the worst between the two it would be those who misused the Bible. There are many who Believe in God and his word who would not commit those crimes and sin. The worst thing is all those non belivers who only see the bad in Religion when there is alot of good also. In the end belief comes down to each person and a relation with God . Nothing else really matters until that happens .
 I have always felt prayer should be allowed in school ( face facts as long as they give test it will happen)Some can pray other meditate . What does it hurt ? I feel parents don't wish to teach their children so they pass laws so others can't influnce
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 08:53:33 AM »
Its Canada.They follow Americas lead.

No they don't , they have gun control, soical medicine , etc etc etc
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2010, 09:27:21 AM »
I have always felt prayer should be allowed in school ( face facts as long as they give test it will happen)Some can pray other meditate . What does it hurt ? I feel parents don't wish to teach their children so they pass laws so others can't influnce

Prayer IS allowed in school.  It's a widespread MYTH (but one they like to repeat because it continues the persecution complex) that "prayer isn't allowed in school".  My parents were/are Christian, and I was brought up in church.  I kept hearing the Sunday school teachers and others tell us "it don't matter if they tell you to stop you PRAY before you eat your lunch" till I was sick.  I KNOW they knew they truth because as someone who was in school with 1st-hand knowledge (rather than getting my info from some fear-mongering televangelist) I told them more than once, but that didn't matter because that would kill their persecution complex.  The truth was ignored.

The simple fact is that any student that wishes to pray in school is allowed to.  For them to NOT be allowed to would be a 1st amendment violation.  The whole "prayer in schools" thing boils down to the SCHOOL praying, not the students.  Teachers, administrators, etc are employees of a government institution and therefore are not allowed to lead prayers in front of students because they speak from an authoritative position in their eyes.  The lie that students are being snatched up for praying before tests or meals is simply people yelling "woe is me!" because they want to feel like the underdog, even when the situation doesn't warrant it.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2010, 09:37:36 AM »
I think we agree it is up to the student ?
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2010, 09:41:04 AM »
I think we agree it is up to the student ?

Absolutely.  I have no problems with any students doing what they will.  That's what freedom is about.  If they want to hold private prayers, or even recreational clubs that other students may join of their own accord, then fine by me.  Just don't have any of it (pro-religion, anti-religion - whatever - it's a subject that's off-limits) coming from a teacher, principal, or the loudspeaker.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2010, 09:42:27 AM »
I'm against religion, but Christanity would be great.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2010, 09:52:50 AM »
Its Canada.They follow Americas lead.

No they don't , they have gun control, soical medicine , etc etc etc

One could argue that WE have gun control and socialized medicine as well. But yes taken in the context that you meant it in  ;) they are far more draconian in those points, at least IMO  ;)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2010, 09:56:59 AM »
I think we agree it is up to the student ?

Absolutely.  I have no problems with any students doing what they will.  That's what freedom is about.  If they want to hold private prayers, or even recreational clubs that other students may join of their own accord, then fine by me.  Just don't have any of it (pro-religion, anti-religion - whatever - it's a subject that's off-limits) coming from a teacher, principal, or the loudspeaker.
I went to a religous private high school , Not my religion but it worked out. We went to chapel every friday and said a prayer before every game and each morning . No one was forced , one or two teachers were non belivers as were several students . The mix of religions was good as we had many. Swampman its a shame that point can be made . It only shows the abuse people have done in the name of one religion or another.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2010, 09:59:33 AM »
Its Canada.They follow Americas lead.

No they don't , they have gun control, soical medicine , etc etc etc

One could argue that WE have gun control and socialized medicine as well. But yes taken in the context that you meant it in  ;) they are far more draconian in those points, at least IMO  ;)
Soical anything is either Govt or the population trying to force all to be alike and that's why it will never work.
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Offline Stillkickin

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2010, 11:55:47 AM »
The issue here appears to be what children can be taught.  It is too big a step for government, at this time, to regulate what parents can teach their children.  But it is a small step for government to assume regulatory control over what a daycare facility can teach a child.  It is, then, not so large a step from there to regulating parents.  If parents accepted responsibility for raising their own offspring from the beginnning rather than dumping them off at a daycare facility for somebody else to teach them values, morals, and socialization, there would be no easy opportunity for regulating what children could be taught.  It would be a parental function, as it should be.  I see stay-at-home mothers as magnificent heroes.   

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2010, 01:15:23 PM »
Its Canada.They follow Americas lead.

No they don't , they have gun control, soical medicine , etc etc etc

One could argue that WE have gun control and socialized medicine as well. But yes taken in the context that you meant it in  ;) they are far more draconian in those points, at least IMO  ;)
Soical anything is either Govt or the population trying to force all to be alike and that's why it will never work.
Agreed  ;)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 08:46:18 AM »
The issue here appears to be what children can be taught.  It is too big a step for government, at this time, to regulate what parents can teach their children.  But it is a small step for government to assume regulatory control over what a daycare facility can teach a child.  It is, then, not so large a step from there to regulating parents.  If parents accepted responsibility for raising their own offspring from the beginnning rather than dumping them off at a daycare facility for somebody else to teach them values, morals, and socialization, there would be no easy opportunity for regulating what children could be taught.  It would be a parental function, as it should be.  I see stay-at-home mothers as magnificent heroes.   

"It takes a village to raise a child "  BS ! It takes good parents to keep a village from ruining a child !
Your post was good !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline BBF

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2010, 12:56:10 PM »
Not surprised. Quebec/Quran- note the similarity!!! :D :D ;) ;)

None whatsoever!
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Quebec bans religion in daycare.
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2010, 12:14:22 AM »
Not surprised. Quebec/Quran- note the similarity!!! :D :D ;) ;)

None whatsoever!
Been to Quebec wasn't impressed really . Visited other providences and the story ie always the same they wish Quebec would leave. I saw them as a very liberal people to much so , to the point of being over the top. If any similarty exist it is both are at the extreame opposite ends .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !