Author Topic: 243 Winchester Verse 22-250 Remington barrel life expectancy? (Read 7033 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** January 27, 2011, 01:40:43 PM »

243 Winchester Verse 22-250 Remington barrel life expectancy? I hear you can get 3,000 to 4,000 rounds out of a 22-250 Remington. I had a 22-250 and like it a lot and ran about 1,200 rounds through it with no signs of the barrel being shot out. It still shot one ragged hole if I did my part. I also had a 243 that shot very well and really enjoyed the 243. I think I want to buy another 243 Remington 700 this spring. It is between that and a 6.5 Creedmoor. I also hear the barrel life of the Creedmoor is between 4,000 and 6,000 rounds. Have any of you ever shot a barrel out in one of these calibers? If so how many rounds did you get out of your barrel? I was wondering this evening if I could expect to get more rounds out of the 243 or the 6.5 Creedmoor than a 22-250? I would think barrel life would be better in either one of the 2 (over the 22-250) due to the fact that the diameter of the barrel is larger and the gasses would not be as concentrated. I am just thinking out loud here and would just like to know what you guys think. Thanks and take care Dale

nomosendero · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2011, 02:36:13 PM »

Well, they are both small bores. As you know since you have loaded both that the 243 case is longer, enough so that the extra capacity more than makes up for having a slightly larger bore, but the difference is not a biggie. Here is a chart to give you a factor to use:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/05/overbore-cartridges-a-working-definition/

And if you are looking at Wildcats/AI's, you can plug in the data as below:

http://kwk.us/powley.html

So, the 22-250 would have slightly better life than 243, but close enough to not be a deciding factor at all, the 6.5 Creedmoor will have MUCH better life than these 2.

If you want just 1 rifle the 243 has the ability to be a MPBR/old school varmiter right slong with the 22/250, but a much better Deer?antelope rifle. If you want a windy day varmiter with fast twist/high BC bullets they can all 3 do that, but a 243cal. 105A-Max has a BC of .500, but a 6.5cal. 123 A-Max has a BC of .520 & can be shot @ about the same vel. plus you can load 130/140 gr. tough bullets & go after Elk with ease with the 6.5mm. + longer barrel life.
It offers alot.

Here is just one of many new 6.5 choices: http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10PREDATORHUNTERMAX1

Good shooting

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2011, 04:06:59 PM »

It would seem I have been looking for the Holy Grail of rifles for several years now.

You see I am a accuracy freak that loves fast and flat. I spend my summers dispatching Groundhogs and target shooting at the 300 yard range I belong to. I also hunt deer a couple weeks out of the year so I am and have been looking for that cartridge that will do both. I really like the 243 Win. and should have never sold that fine shooting rifle. I kind of think the 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Remington or the 243 Winchester are what I am looking for a do all rifle. I am even thinking I am not going to just settle on my next rifle and buy the cheapest or most economical rifle I can afford at the time. I am not opposed to spending up $1200.00 for a rifle that shoots great and does everything I want it to do. I even have the glass picked out for the said rifle. The scope I want to put on top of it is a Vortex Viper PST.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/vortex.pl?page=vortexviperpst6-24x50ffp
This is not going to be a cheap set up when it is all said and done but it will be what I want and do everything I would like it to do. My hardest decision is what caliber. Should I get a 243 Win,6.5 Creedmoor or a 260 Rem. If I go with the 6.5 Creedmoor it will have to be a Thompson Center Pro hunter bolt action. Otherwise I would have to buy a Remington 700 and have it rebarrled. The other 2 choices are pretty simple and can find them pretty easy. Thanks Dale

nomosendero · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2011, 05:38:39 PM »

Dale, if you aren't worried about the cost you may as well up the odds that it will shoot, since this one is now avail. in 6.5C

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/icon_precision_hunter.php

Take a look at this article, caliber & all!!

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/store-bought-long-range-rifle-1.php

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2011, 04:15:12 AM »

Yea thats the one I am thinking about. Bud's Gun shop has them for $801.00
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_440/products_id/58301
I can't find it in the Creedmoor as of yet but they say they are going to make it in one. I bet with handloads that rifle will really shoot. Of course I still need to be able to come up with the money for the project. Thanks Dale

Catfish · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:36:24 AM »

Barrel life can be shortened alot by by fire with a hot barrel no matter what the round. I burned the throught out on a 224 TTH ( 22-6mm) in 1,000 rounds, but I did fire it alittle hot on different occations. I had 1/2 in. cutt off the barrel and had it rechambered and it`s shooting good again. It would put 3 rounds in to a 2 in. group all day. I also play with a 6-284 which is alittle better 1,000 yrd. round. I would also like you to take a look at the the Savage action. If your looking for extreem accuracy and shooting hot loads it`s the only way to go as swapping out a barrel is so easy you can do it yourself. For around $ 1,200 you can build one from the ground up with a floor plated target action.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2011, 06:28:55 AM »

Yea I have been looking into Savages as well do to the fact that barrels can be swapped out pretty easy. I am beginning to think that a barrel is just a temporary part of a rifle and if you shoot as much as I do It will not take to long to shoot one out. I misspoke earlier on previous post and called the rifle I was looking at a Thompson Center Pro hunter. The rifle I am thinking about is the T/C precision Hunter Linked below.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/440/sort/6a/page/4/products_id/62407
I am just looking for a very accurate rifle out of the box that I can shoot out to 1,000 yards if I choose to do so some day and I have read up on the T/C Precision Hunter and the price of $801.00 makes it a front runner for sure. I have been a huge Remington 700 fan for many years now so it is going to be hard to break that habit. Thanks for your input fellows and keep it coming. I am open to suggestions. To be honest I would like to keep the price of the rifle alone to $1,000 or less. Dale

john keyes · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2011, 02:15:56 PM »

find an old .240 Wby, shoot the piss out of it. rebarrel. repeat.

FW Conch · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2011, 05:21:46 AM »

I 'LOVE' my 260 Rem.! Built it up from a Stevens 200 for $850, including a good used scope. Works great on groundhogs & whitetail & whatever, I'm sure. The 243 may shoot flater, "BUT HOW MUCH FLATER"? - Jim

diggler1833 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:42:30 PM »

Savage LRPV in .22-250 with the 1:9 twist should stabilize the 75gr A-Max, a great varmint/target round, and more than plenty to make it to 1K.

I had a Remmy 700 rebarreled to .260Rem, and it has shot great for me so far, cost will be a bit more than your budget.

You can also look at the SPS Varmint in .243Win. Enough twist to stabilize the 95gr bullets, and some have been able to do so running the 105's pretty fast. Cost is no more than your .22-250, but I'd ditch that flimsy stock. A few guys have been able to get 2000-3000 rounds out of a .243 with minimal accuracy loss, others shoot out their barrel in 1500, depends some on the shooter.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2011, 03:07:58 PM »

Do you feel that a stainless steel barrel would shoot more rounds than a regular blued barrel before being shot out? I have always wondered if the SS barrels were some how a better metal. Thanks Dale

nomosendero · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2011, 03:21:03 PM »

Here is what Lilja folks have to say, many others seem to agree, at least on the throat erosion part.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/details_of_accuracy.htm

roper · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2011, 03:15:47 AM »

I copied this from Kreiger site

Q: Which is better Chrome Moly or Stainless Steel?

A: For the most part neither one is better than the other. The only difference we find is that sometimes the chrome moly might take a little longer to break-in and might have a little more affinity for copper or seems to show it easier. In terms of barrel life and accuracy, we can find no difference.

Here is something from Obermeyer on barrels

http://www.obermeyerbarrels.com/steel.html

nomosendero · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2011, 07:15:04 AM »

Yes & here is another that states the stainless barrels have a longer life & yes several others (and good sources on each side) don't think so, it appears more yeas than nays.

http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart.htm

It was noted in the article: In target shooting stainless barrels have for the most part supplanted the use of Chrome Moly barrels. The steel is not a true, fully austenitic stainless such as is found in cutlery or surgical instruments. The 416 type stainless steel used in barrels is one of a group of martensitic steels which can be hardened by heat treating like regular Carbon steels. 416 stainless is more accurately described as a "free machining, rust resistant" steel having a high Chrome content, around 13%, but with sulphur added to give it good machining qualities. It is widely considered that stainless barrels will have a longer life and are more accurate than Chrome Moly barrels. If stainless barrels are "shot in" using the prescribed procedure, the barrel aquires a burnishing which almost eliminates metal fouling, making stainless barrels very easy to clean.

nomosendero · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2011, 07:18:26 AM »

I think the stainless vs chrome moly part of the equation is quite minimal. I don't think I ever choose one rifle over another for that feature alone if accuracy & barrel life were the considerations, but I have chosen SS for harsh enviorment reasons in a hunting rifle.

roper · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:32:51 AM »

Myself I've never build the same caliber rifle with a SS and CM barrel from the same manufactor to see which last longer and I admit I have more custom SS barrels 20 plus vs custom CM have 4.

It's always interesting reading the sites from the barrel guys and I've been in afew shops and watch barrels being made very interesting. I've wore out afew SS barrel mainly from volume shooting most time the higher cost of the SS barrel is less than buying a CM then having it blued and if it wasn't for that I'd more than likely have more CM barrels.

My wifes 280AI has a Kreiger CM and my 280AI has a Lija SS cut from the same chamber reamer hers is loaded with 150gr TSX and mine 160gr Accubond. 3 shot groups they do in the .3's it open alittle on 5 shot group but still less than 1/2". At 69yrs old I hope were both still around to see if we wear those barrels out.

It's really funny reading ads and the word games like from Border with this comment "It is widely considered that stainless barrels will have a longer life and are more accurate than Chrome Moly barrels. If stainless barrels are "shot in" using the prescribed procedure, the barrel aquires a burnishing which almost eliminates metal fouling, making stainless barrels very easy to clean." You notice they never come out and say "Our SS barrel will last longer shoot better than the CM we make"

Lilja has this to say " Lilja uses 416 stainless. A stainless barrel has a longer and more accurate life than the standard 4140-type chrome/molybdenum steel barrel because stainless steel resists heat erosion in the throat better. "I also get a better final finish with stainless," Lilja said. Same thing with Lilja

Kreiger the only one I know of that will say there is no difference in his testing of his barrels outside of maybe more barrel break-in with the CM.

I guess if a guy want to purchase a barrel based on "Yes & here is another that states the stainless barrels have a longer life & yes several others (and good sources on each side) don't think so, it appears more yeas than nays." and not mentioning his barrels be good reason to buy a SS barrel. I sure like to read some post that say a CM last longer than a SS maybe you could post those sites.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2011, 03:48:53 AM »

I have heard that some rifle makers chrome the chamber and barrels of their 223 and 243 WSSM to prolong the life of these so called barrel eaters. First off does it work? If it does is there a company out there that would do it to a after market to prolong the life of that barrel. Thanks Dale

roper · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:30:44 PM »

Dale, I understand looking at all options on selecting a barrel and trying to get the best bang for the buck. When you start looking a 3K rds fired every year not sure if you looking at just wearing a barrel out or replacing it when the accuracy drops to a certain level. I normally have a barrel replaced when accuracy falls off in my varmit rifles but I'm lucky that I own more than one rifle and I don't shoot the same rifle every year also have my varmit rifles then paper punching rifles.

This is just me but I get a Savage or clone with acouple barrels and get one barrel for shooting paper another for varmits. You more than like have something last 3/4 years maybe long then replace your barrels as need. All or most barrel outfits are making Savage barrels and you could change out the barrels yourself. You could just rifle this year and another barrel next lots of ways to work that. Well good luck

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:57:20 PM »

Dale, I have been following this thread, I think Roper has good advice for you..But for my taste I don't care for the Savage rifles, but that is a personal thing..I am not sure how much you will shoot your rifle, but here are some things I have kept track of over the years..When I shot a lot of p. dogs, I ran about 3500 rounds though a .243 Sako...accuracy was still acceptable..I put 4400 rds. though a .22-250 before the throat shot out enough to make the bullets keyhole..my current 222 has about 7000 rds though it and is still a tack driver..the barrel shows some wear, but no where near as much as my .22-250 Improved which has 2400 rds down the bore..Like Roper, I have quite a few varmit rifles from the common .22 LR though a .300 win..so nowdays, none of them get hammered like the rifles did when I only owned a couple...You could spring for a Rem. 700 in the caliber you like, then get a replacement barrel from Brownells..I think you liked your heavy barreled .22-250..for me that or the Swift is about perfect for chuck shooting in Pa. Then I would order a replacement barrel or two...I used to do that and kept a new .22 caliber barrel on the rack at all times...I just used my last one to make up a .220 swift..As far as SS barrels vs. crome moly, my old .300 hunting rifle had a badly worn throat with a cromemoly barrel in about 1500-1700 rds. I replaced the barrel on that rifle with a Lilja SS in the same caliber...it has about 1000 rds down the bore..I can not really see any wear taking place now, maybe the rifling has rounded to some degree, but no serious throat erosion..Honestly, I think you are too concerned about barrel wear..to me if a guy has enough $ to shoot out a barrel, then a replacement barrel is not a problem... Hang in there, that is half the fun of shooting, deciding what to buy next: right now I have I kind of narrowed down to a #1 in .300 H & H , a Rem.416, a Rem.257 Wea, a S&W 41 MAG., A RUGER .44, or a.338-06....

Who knows what I will want tomorrow???

nomosendero · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:18:09 PM »

Quote

I guess if a guy want to purchase a barrel based on "Yes & here is another that states the stainless barrels have a longer life & yes several others (and good sources on each side) don't think so, it appears more yeas than nays." and not mentioning his barrels be good reason to buy a SS barrel. I sure like to read some post that say a CM last longer than a SS maybe you could post those sites

I was done with this but since your last sentence was a question directed to me. And BTW, only stating what most I have read through the years have stated, while fewer but yet knowledgeable folk disagree.

I have no doubt we could find those posts, but why? I never said anyone should base their purchase on these posts or links, your or mine. There are more who feel stainless barrels offer more life, I can't help that, but won't question it because I don't have the testing equipment in my garage.

Apparantly this matter is much more important to you than it is to me, VERY much more.
Did you not read my last post? I stated then:

Quote

I think the stainless vs chrome moly part of the equation is quite minimal. I don't think I ever choose one rifle over another for that feature alone if accuracy & barrel life were the considerations, but I have chosen SS for harsh enviorment reasons in a hunting rifle

That shows how it is not that big a deal to me, or should indicate such to most people.

The first post (before this was expanded)was directed more toward throat erosion as stated. It really does appear that more barrel makers than not feel that way, but certainly not all.

I remember when Remington offered a black stainless 7mag, in fact I owned one. It was a "OPTION" meaning they thought right or wrong that it offered an advantage, or it might have been hype. When I asked about this , the ole throat erosion/barrel life thing came up, as it did in later gun articles about these M700's.

But again, not a biggie to me, as I still feel other matters are much more important & if you volume shoot the barrels will be replaced anyway.

And Sir, yes I hope you & your Wife get a chance to wear out those tubes, the same with me & my Wife, but with Susie shooting a 6.5x55 that may be an optimistic hope.

nomosendero · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:24:07 PM »

Quote

Honestly, I think you are too concerned about barrel wear..to me if a guy has enough $ to shoot out a barrel, then a replacement barrel is not a problem... Hang in there, that is half the fun of shooting, deciding what to buy next: right now I have I kind of narrowed down to a #1 in .300 H & H , a Rem.416, a Rem.257 Wea, a S&W 41 MAG., A RUGER .44, or a.338-06.... Who knows what I will want tomorrow???

I agree with WCH that you are a little too worried about barrel life.

WCH, those Number 1's in 300H&H look really nice. I will be starting on my 264 in a couple of months.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:30:03 PM »

I think I have made my mind up on what to do. I have been a big Remington fan for many years but believe it or not I am going to buy a Savage Stevens in a 243 Winchester. I had one before and really enjoyed shooting it of course it was in a Remington 700 though. I am going to buy a Stevens for the simple fact I will be able to change barrels out myself. I can buy an after market trigger and stock for it as I can afford them and I think I will end up with a pretty good shooting rifle. When it comes time to change the factory barrel out I will consider a 6.5 Creedmoor or some other caliber that I am interested at that time. Thanks for the help. I just have to accept the fact that a barrel is just a temporary part of the rifle. Thanks and take care Dale

nomosendero · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2011, 03:04:31 PM »

Dale, I think you are doing well. I am looking a getting a Sav. soon myself & I have a butt load of good shooting Remingtons.
Good luck & keep us informed!

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2011, 04:36:40 AM »

nomosendero, I was hoping you would mention the #1 .264..I was interested to see if you had shot it much..guess not..I am feeling I want the #1 in .300 H & H..will see in a couple days...

Dale, Hope you enjoy the rifle you have selected..I sighted a Stevens .270 in for a friend in Pa. It shot super with Fed. blue box loads...the scope wasn't set for my eye, but it sure drilled them in there..good luck...

nomosendero · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:37:58 PM »

Quote from: Wyo. Coyote Hunter on February 04, 2011, 04:36:40 AM

nomosendero, I was hoping you would mention the #1 .264..I was interested to see if you had shot it much..guess not..I am feeling I want the #1 in .300 H & H..will see in a couple days...

Dale, Hope you enjoy the rifle you have selected..I sighted a Stevens .270 in for a friend in Pa. It shot super with Fed. blue box loads...the scope wasn't set for my eye, but it sure drilled them in there..good luck...

Not yet but soon, hunting season has ended for me & when I get past some things I am behind on (because of hunting season) the testing will begin

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #25 on:** February 05, 2011, 04:45:19 AM »

Let me know how this one goes..I am away right now..but when I get back to Wy..or about to head home, I am thinking I will give my FFL guy a call, and have him order the #1...Have only had a few, maybe 3 or 4..none were outstanding shooters...but they sure are pretty..

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:35:56 PM »

Well, I think most of the relavent factors have already been voiced, but one which a person might want to factor in is high velocity light bullet loads.

I have an old RUGER "Flat Bolt" in 243, which has always been an excellent shooter.

However, a few years back I was reading about shooting the 55gr Balastic Tips at 22/250 PLUS velocities.

Thought I'd give it a try, and for the first time saw over 4000fps on the chrony.

Now that load didn't give the groups I desire, and in some 243s stabalization can be an issue, but from what I have seem at this point, I should find a load giving the groups at velocities in excess of what is normally seem with a 22/250.

If so, I suspect the life of this already old barrel won't be extended to any degree by my actions.

But then, if a person shoots out a barrel by other then over heating and other such actions, he is indeed lucky as he has put a lot of shots down range with that rifle!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot