45-70 vs 500 S&W

[rsilvers]

I reload for both.

What are the Handi Rifle max ballistics of each?

If you load both to 50,000 psi - what will each do in the Handi with, say, a 300 grain projectile?

QuickLoad says that at 50,000 psi and a 22 inch barrel and a Barnes 300, 2304 fps for 45-70, 2292 fps for 500 S&W. But if you load the 500 to 60,000 psi, then 2308 fps.

Basically 45-70 has a bit over 20% more case capacity.

So it seems like a wash.

[gcrank1]

Except that in a hunting bullet you must consider the effect of frontal area.

[gendoc]

50k in a 45/70 ?  what powder are you using in that quickload calculation ?
ain't that kinda red hot !!!

[quickdtoo]

Check Hodgdon data and you'll see 50k 45-70 loads that are much faster, Barnes runs to 55k, their 250gr bullets runs over 2800fps in a 24" barrel, Hodgdon 50k 300gr loads run over 2500fps in a 24" barrel. John Taffin has data for the 500S&W in his Handi article. Hodgdon's top pressure for the 500S&W revolver is about 53kpsi. Even 40k levergun 45-70 loads of H4198 in one of my 22" Handis will push 300gr Nosler partitions over 2400fps. I've only used Lil'gun in my 500S&W, max loads push the 350gr XPT ~2150fps, 385gr Rem ~2050fps, 440gr Cast Performance ~1900fps and the 700gr Ranger Rick ~1450fps.

Tim

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/45-70RugerNo1Web.pdf?PHPSESSID=7d20e5b6d0f80e3f427dfdf2bbc0462f

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_1_53/ai_n16866654/pg_3/?tag=content;col1

NEF .500 S&W HANDI-RIFLE
FACTORY HUNTING LOADS

Load                             Velocity   Group Size
(brand, weight)                   (fps)      (inches)

BUFFALO BORE 400 JFN              2,035       1 1/8
BUFFALO BORE 440 LFNGC            1,497       1 1/2
BUFFALO BORE 440 LFNGC/HEAVY      1,925         1
COR-BON 275 BARNES                2,068       1 1/8
COR-BON 400 JSP                   1,971       1 1/2
COR-BON 440 HARD CAST             1,947       1 1/2
HORNADY 300 EVOLUTION             2,248        3/4
HORNADY 350 XTP/MAG               2,056        3/4
HORNADY 500 FP/XTP                1,546        5/8
WINCHESTER 400 PLATINUM TIP HP    1,978        7/8

[rsilvers]

Are those actual velocities or manufacture claimed velocities?

[quickdtoo]

Taffin's velocities are crono'd since the factory ammo would be slower revolver velocities, BB ammo is much slower for instance.

Tim

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=19

[Shu]

Ouch, running those up in handis is a bit of recoil. I can't shoot them that hot in a handi. I tried it was a bit much for me, after 5 rounds I had to put the rifle down and let it rest.

Imho once you get over about 45 caliber the end performance will be pretty close to the same. Yep frontal area makes a difference but at this level it is about the same. There will be some who disagree and thats ok, there are many who say the 35 Whelen, 338 mag and 375 are in the same class. They arent really but those cartridges are very similar and all preform great.

I would pick the 45-70 over the 50 sw just becuase I am set up to laod for it. I wouldn't pass up on the 50 though.

[cwlongshot]

I have had a long time affection for the 45-70, a longer one for big, heavy bullets!! For me these two do not get compared. Sure they do overlap quite a bit on paper.
In my mind, the 500 is a short barrel rifle or hand gun caliber. Best suited in a heavy handgun or short "handi" carbine. Where big power at closer ranges are called for.

While the 45-70 is a classic western long barreled thumper. Loaded appropriately, its great for big game across the world. At ranges from muzzle to couple hundred yards.

BOTH have their respected positions in my gun safe.

CW

[rsilvers]

Well really the 500 has nothing about it that makes it less of a rifle caliber. Powders don't change based on barrel length.

[gcrank1]

The 500 bests the old 50-70Gov., a rifle cartridge, and if I didnt have the .577Snider I think I would want one.