Frame stretch/lug setback- how common?

[JimG]

Like the subject title says how common is frame stretch and lug setback on Handis? Are there calibers that the Handi is chambered for that it really should not be for long term durability?

[Spanky]

There have been some problems with the .500 S&W Handi's.



Spanky

[quickdtoo]

SB2 Frames don't stretch! I think that's a myth carried over from TC Contenders, I had a 300WSM barrel that was rechambered from 308Win, to give you an idea of the breech force created by short mags, no one currently offers any short mag barrels for the Encore which is a stronger platform than an SB2 H&R frame. My mid level 300WSM loads caused the action itself to flex as evident by the gap between the top of the barrel and frame after each shot, it never did get loose tho, I had also improved the underlug per the FAQs to avoid the loose barrel issue since underlugs can be too soft, I've done the same to several barrels I have including my 500S&W.  You can see the same gap shooting hot loads from most any high pressure chambering like 30-06 and 270 Win if you look for the gap prior to opening the action, the barrel release will also be hard to press when that happens, but it doesn't stretch the frame.  The frame pin that the latch pivots on flexes IMO, it needs to be bigger with less space on each side of the latch so it has better support.

Further evidence that frames don't stretch is pretty obvious from the 7.62x39 round fired in a 243 barrel here, I don't know what pressure was involved, but a .310" bullet forced thru a .243" must have created considerable breech force, and the frame was undamaged, H&R inspected it and fitted a new barrel to it for the owner.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,70638.msg433117.html#msg433117

[quickdtoo]

Jim,

Let me try to answer your question a little more clearly. There's a difference between frame stretch, which to me means a permanent change in the frame dimensions, and frame flex, either the frame itself, or the action within while under the stress of breech force. I once made a small tool to try and measure the change in the angle of the horizontal side of a frame where it meets the standing breech part, but never could find a difference between before and after the shot with my measurement method, but if there was a difference, there wasn't much. But the internals of the action must flex some which is what makes hot loaded brass hard to rechamber once they're been fired, it also makes them stick in ejectors and hard to extract as well as the difficult barrel release. I feel the weak link in the action, as I stated earlier, is the pin that anchors the barrel latch, it's just too small and not properly supported, I think if H&R made that pin a little larger and closed the gaps on each side so the latch pin is supported closer to the center, it would help a lot. I've even thought about making one myself just to see if it's feasible.

An entirely different issue is underlug setback, and as Spanky mentioned, has happened with some 500S&W barrels, but those were replaced by H&R, whether it's common I don't really think so since there are many here that have never had a problem shooting a lot of hunting loads in theirs. One member had a 38-55 shoot loose a long time ago, IIRC he had a lot of rounds thru it when it happened, 8000 rounds thru the 5 H&Rs that he owned I think it was, and he only shot cast loads in the 38-55, it's a low pressure round, so IMO it was probably from not lubing the pivot regularly and it just wore loose, may happen even if it was lubed regularly, that's a lot of cycles just from loading and unloading, a heck of a lot of shooting!

Tim