Author Topic: .223: what is lightest/fastest yet stable bullet and what slowest twist (Read 5948 times)

john keyes · « **on:** December 30, 2010, 03:43:10 AM »

I want to buy a .223 bolt gun to handle the light/fast bullets. Is 40 gr about the lower limit? and w/o looking I reckon upper speed limit will fall short a little bit of 4000. I guess I need about a 1 in 12 or 14 twist to shoot em?

I have a new .223 in 1 in 9 and that is fine but I just ordered 1000 64 gr softpoints and that rifle will be dedicated to that one load I work up. Now I want another rifle for a real light bullet load.

I was shooting my new .223 yesterday and wondered why it took so long to get one. I have all my dies and stuff on the way from midsouth. I have a lot of experience with the big bores and cals, yes they are fun too but man I am in love with my .223. I loved watching impacts at 200 yds on clay targets through the scope without it moving!

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2010, 08:25:10 AM »

John, I am not sure I will answer your question, but I never saw any data that had the .223 hitting 4000fps...but it will clip a 40 grain pretty fast...I think the 4000 fps range is .22-250 -220 swift range..those are two of my very favorite small bore calib ers, but as to the twist of a .223...I had a used 700 in 223 that did not shoot to suit me..finally I decided it was worth a new barrel..put a 27 inch Douglas air ga. on it ...with a 1-14 twist..that is the old std. twist for most 22 cal. center fires, I BELIEVE,.. anyway it is a real tack driver with bullets from 40 to 64 grain...I loaded 50 64 grain WW for wild turkey hunting..they shoot super..for my purpose the 40-55 grain .22's do most of my varmiting..with the 63 and 64 grain for coyotes, turkey, and when I shot deer with a .22, they were my choice...have fun

billy_56081 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2010, 08:41:58 AM »

For one I do not think you will reach near 4000 fps in a 223. You cannot have to fast of a twist barrel for light bullets unless you spin them so fast that they actually come apart from centrafugal force. Now if you were going to design a barrel for exclusivly shooting 40 grainers 1 in 14 or 1 in 16 would be ideal. Too fast of a twist will not cause a bullet to be unstable, only too slow. Also the faster you push a bullet the slower the twist you need, as it is the RPM's the bullet is spinning that causes it to be stable. You could try the new 35 grain non toxic ballistic tips, you could get closer to 4000 fps with them. Also it is not the weight of a bullet that determines the twist but the length.

DannoBoone · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2010, 05:14:50 PM »

The bearing surface on some of the light, non-toxic bullets is actually longer than most 55gr bullets.
Compare a 36gr Varmint Grenade to a 55gr V-Max, you'll see what I mean. The 36gr VG, even at
4000+ in my .22-250 allows me to see impact. Some have complained that VG's are not accurate,
but I haven't gotten a tighter group (3/16") with anything else in my 1:12 twist Sav VLP. If it were
me, I'd go with a 1:12. It ain't gonna overspin any bullet out there.

drdougrx · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2010, 04:35:12 AM »

My Rem Lite Varmint has a 1:12 twist and I shoot 40gr BTs but only get 3020-ish and a under 1" groups. Might be able to pick up a few hundred fps but I don't see the need for me. Please let us know what you find!

Catfish · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2010, 04:47:32 AM »

3500 fps is the top velocity listed in my Sierra manual. A 14 twist would stablize them with no probelm, but them should shoot as well in a 12. If your wanting 4,000 fps you`ll have to step up to a .22-250 or larger, but when you start tring to hit those velocities you get alot more throught wear.

telebasher · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2010, 11:21:31 AM »

What is it that you want/need to shoot @ 4000 FPS ? If you could get a bullet that fast out of your 223 you would have to be very careful not to shoot the throat out prematurely. A friend bought a brand new Ruger # 1 in 22-250 and we mounted a scope and sighted it in with Rem factory loads. We went praire dog shooting and He got to enthused and shot about 50-60 rounds as fast as He could load and shoot. When I got back from where I had been shooting, His forearm was smoking and you could't hold the gun ! After it had cooled we cleaned the barrel and tried to see if it was still hitting POA. The throat was so far gone it would't shoot in 4 inches @ 25 yds! I guess my point is that while velocity makes for flatter trajectories and spectaculor hits from afar, it doesn't necessarily add accuracy, sometimes just the opposite. Also it means that you must guard against shooting rapidly and not getting your barrel to hot. The most accurate loads from my 223's as I recall came at around 3200 FPS for a 50/52 gr bullet. The praire dogs or other varmints never seemed to mind if they were shot @3200fps or 4000 fps. If I need more performance then I grab that rebarreled # 1-22-250 or its twin in 220 Swift.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2010, 11:38:18 AM »

I myself like the flat shooting of 4000+ fps. There was no way my savage 110 in 223 was ever going to get near that. I rebarreled it to 220 swift with an Adams & Bennet barrels changed the magazine and bolt head. Now I have a 4250 FPS chonographed coyote killer. I love it. Put one down this morning running far far away. I use 40 combined technology ballisic tips. They don't make them any more but I have a few years worth of them yet. As for burning out the barrel, if it lasts 800 rounds that is many years of hunting.

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2010, 12:03:30 PM »

Billy, I am with you about the flat shooting Swift for coyotes..It is probably my favorite big .22 cal..,but as Tele pointed out, knocking the throat out in a prairie dog town with it could easily happen..too expensive for me..I will stick with my .223 for that or shoot very sparingly with my bigger .22's...as for barrel life, when I did shoot p. dogs with my .22-250's I got just over 4000 rds though one before the barrel went...my .222 has over 7000 and it is still shooting fine...we are kind of talking apples to oranges when we consider rounds fired at coyotes vs. a dog town...My current Swift has over 1000 rds down the barrel and it is a tack driver showing little throat erosion..So unless I would shoot p. dogs with it, it will last a long time..My .22-250 Improved has right at 2500 rds. down the bore..it does show throat erosion, but accuracy is still excellent..So I would not worry about shooting my swift out in 800 rds...I have tried 40 grain vmax on coyotes as well as the 30 grain Bergers...I like the 40's but for most of my coyote shooting here I usually use the 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking....it is always a learning thing to know what other coyote shooters and varmit hunters are doing...for years I was like John, I had a bunch of big game rifles, and only one or two varmiters..then one day the light came on...what do I shoot more varmits or big game?

so what a FINE REASON to buy some more pure varmit rifles.......

telebasher · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2010, 12:46:34 PM »

Thats really what this thread comes down to, matching up your arsenal for the utmost performance ballistically and economically. I am a huge fan of the Swift and the 22-250 . Mine are relegated to the predator calling, while the 223 and my Hornets are set up for the praire dog towns. All will take care of praire dogs, all will kill predators, all give a good reason to be in ones arsenal though my better half has a different opinion on that last statement!!! LOL

billy_56081 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2010, 12:50:57 PM »

Yeah for coyote I have a 25-06 bolt, a 243 and 223 barrel for my handi, a mini 14 for walking and my 220 swift Savage 110. You can never have too many varmint rifles. Or too many rifles. If I were to have to choose one caliber for coyote it would be a tough call between 220 and 243. I'm glad we don't have to decide on just one. Instead of a 223 John you might want to look into the 204 ruger. A few of the guys we hunt with have them and really like them. They should get much closer to your desired specs, and you can see the hits through the scope.

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2010, 04:53:32 PM »

I've pushed 40s at over 3800 fps measured by my Oehler chrono from the 26" barrel of Remington M700 Varmint rifles. That's with a from the book load I assume was safe in my rifles as nothing bad has happened yet. Lighter bullets might start faster but lose velocity so fast you gain nothing with them. I think Remington uses a 1-12" twist.

2ndtimer · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2011, 08:36:41 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 31, 2010, 04:53:32 PM

I've pushed 40s at over 3800 fps measured by my Oehler chrono from the 26" barrel of Remington M700 Varmint rifles. That's with a from the book load I assume was safe in my rifles as nothing bad has happened yet. Lighter bullets might start faster but lose velocity so fast you gain nothing with them. I think Remington uses a 1-12" twist.

I echo Graybeard's results with my Remington SPS Varmint, having clocked the 40 gr bullet over 3800 fps out of its 26 inch barrel using Accurate 2015 at the maximum load in the Lyman No. 48 manual. And yes, the Remington comes with a 1 in 12" twist barrel which is common in Remingtons, Howas and Weatherby Vanguards. Most other manufacturers seem to be gravitating to the faster 1 in 9" twist (Savage and Ruger) or even 1 in 8" (Sako and Tikka). I like the 1 in 12" twist because I have no plans to shoot any bullets heavier than 55 grains.

john keyes · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2011, 04:40:45 AM »

I had looked at the data for 223 and seen tops was about 35-3600. I figured with the new latest and greatest and since I'm always a few years behind the times that 4000 had to be happening lately. so I kinda pulled that number out of my ass.

anyway thanks for the replies guys!

Nightsniper · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2011, 05:57:02 PM »

Well reading the post,I must have wonder gun. Its a 1 year old Stevens 200 1/9 twist that loves Hornaday .223 40 vmax. It shoots consistant groups @ 100 .5
and its not 4000FPS but the box says its 3800FPS. It can realy Mistify a Crow!

tangob5 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:35:46 AM »

I've shot the Hornady factory loaded 40 gr. V-Max's out of my CZ 527 Varmint Laminate with a 1:12 twist with excellent results. Five shot groups at 100 yards less then 1/2" on a regular basis. I get even better results with loading 50 gr. V-max's at approx. 3400 FPS.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:23:40 PM »

The higher velocity loads won't necessarily be the most accurate load out of your gun, I concentrate on accurate over fast for varmint loads.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2011, 03:15:12 AM »

For a 4,000 ft/sec+ load use a 30gr Berger varmint bullet and watch the fur fly.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2011, 04:53:53 AM »

If you're using a 26" barrel and pushing top end loads then the 14" twist will do very nicely, probably best, with 32 to 55 gr bullets in the .223.

Larry Gibson

gary leonard · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2011, 06:29:00 AM »

I use the 35 grain ballistic silver tip ''lead free'' bullet it goes 3800 fps and packs a good wallop on yotes

Don-T · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2011, 03:39:21 PM »

I concur with 3850 fps with 40 gr Vmax and a stiff charge of Exterminator. If you really need 4000, a simple rechamber to 223AI will give 4100, at least my Cooper 1/14 twist will. I only load for 3900 though since it's more accurate there.

woods555 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 05, 2011, 10:44:23 AM »

I used a .223 bullet in a .308 rifle. I believe they were called "accelerator". mv was close to 4000. I also loaded my own with 55gr. hpbt. Using a sabot they were extremely accurate and had a mv of about 3250 if I remember correctly.