357 Herret in a Handi

[tlmkr38]

Has anyone on here taken a 357 mag barrel and made a 357 Herret out of it? I have thought about this but was not sure if it would be any real benefit over say a 30-30 barrel. I have a contender in this and to be honest it's fun to shoot but I have wondered about making a Handi in it.

[eskimo36]

I had one.  Great gun but I sold it to a Indiana deer hunter. Trotterlg has the reamer.

[mechanic]

Just noting some ballistics:
 
357 Herrett            150 gr. JHP @ 2380fps = 1910# energy,    (pistol with 10" barrel)
30 -30 Win.            150 gr. SP  @ 2390 fps = 1903# energy,   (rifle with 22" barrel)
 
357 Herrett = high pressure
30-30 = low pressure.
 
I know I'm gonna' get flamed.....not the first time, as this was my Dad's favorite round in his Contender, but why not just shoot the 30 30?  Need more range, 308.
 
Ok, I'm ready, launch the rotten eggs and tomatoes.
 
Ben
 

[twoshooter]

No eggs, no tomatoes. I do like the Herrett, and I have talked to Larry about reaming one for me when I find the right barrel. The plus' I see are this, #1 You can use all your favorite 357 bullets, like a 357 max. Only you can use 30/30 brass which is laying all over pretty cheap. #2  I want a very short barrel 16.5 " , and it loses less velocity than a 30/30 would. The larger the bore size in relation to barrel length, (with a given case capacity) the faster powder you can use which means you can get shorter pressure curves and so better velocity.  A 35 Remington would be similar also, but I like the rimmed case and harder shoulder. I find casting 357 and up easier than 30 cal, but maybe that is just me. I just find that I have more faith with a 358 dia 163 gr HPFB ( which I have ) over a 150 RN 309 dia. when it comes to hunting.  I wish I had never gotten rid of my Herrett barrel for my contender. I picked up a set of RCBS dies in excellent shape here last year for a reasonable price and so I have everything but the barrel already.
     I have and use my 30/30, it will go to my grandson within the next 5-6 years probably. The Herrett I would keep and fiddle with largely as a hobby, because it is something not everyone has. 

[cwlongshot]

Just noting some ballistics:
 
357 Herrett            150 gr. JHP @ 2380fps = 1910# energy,    (pistol with 10" barrel)
30 -30 Win.            150 gr. SP  @ 2390 fps = 1903# energy,   (rifle with 22" barrel)
 
357 Herrett = high pressure
30-30 = low pressure.
 
I know I'm gonna' get flamed.....not the first time, as this was my Dad's favorite round in his Contender, but why not just shoot the 30 30?  Need more range, 308.
 
Ok, I'm ready, launch the rotten eggs and tomatoes.
 
Ben

It wont come fom me my friend!

You touched on a good reason...

The bigger Herrett was designed for better ballistics from a PISTOL. Putting one in a Rifle, IMHO makes it a also ran. The Maxi, 35 Rem and even STD 357 Mag come real close to same ballistics... The 356 Winchester and 35 Whelen leave it in the dust! 

Years ago, I too had one in a 14"Contender in Herrett. I liked it until some issues arose. I sold it off right after shooting a then brand new cartridage, the 357Maximum. I first bought a 10" bull, then a 21"Contender Maxi barrel. Then later bought a H&R when I ran across the factory Maxi and took it!

I am a huge fan of the 35 calibers, the Herrett is a "cool"caliber, but as I said, it was built to improve preformance in a hand rifle. Then there is the whole added step of making your own cases...

CW

[twoshooter]

Much as it pains me  to cast aspersions on my most esteemed friend and colleague CW....     I just dug out my ORIGINAL OFFICIAL "Make your Contender Perform  by one Bob Milek , (with adds for the NEW 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook) It shows a standard 357 mag load with a 158 gr JHP- 16.5 gr of 4227, from a 10" barrel  - 1575 fps. The Herrett 10 " same bullet, 26 gr of 2400 for 2190 fps. With a 14 " barrel it is 2340 fps.
     The 357 Max loads shown for the 10.5 " SBH (biggest mistake I made "gun wise" was trading that off,  let me pause while I blow my nose) with a 160 SIL load was 1650 fps over 25 gr of W680.
     There is a sizeable  difference there.  The Herrett is very close to the 35 rem actually, but with a rim, and as I said, a hard shoulder, and thicker brass.
            It is NOT a Whelan or a 356. It is a good performer for the do-it-yourselfer.

[Jeff H]

This is one of the best discussions I have read in a long time.  I see both s(all) sides and have had this same argument with myself over and over.  They all make sense.
 
Several years ago, I acquired a Chilean '95 action with a Swedish '94 barrel screwed onto it.
I already had a couple 6.5x55s and had planned for years to convert the '95 to a 18" full-stocked .35 Remington for cast bullets.
 
Then, I started reading about the .357 in a carbine and decided that it was going to be cheaper and easier and started looking for one of those contoured barrelled Handis.  Looked, waited.  Waited looked........
 
Gave up on the Handi, sold the Mauser and bought a Rossi .357 carbine.  It's been a great little gun but 158 grain bullets are the heaviest I can shoot well with it and started looking to move it and resume the Handi search.  Looked, waited.  Waited looked........  Still using the Rossi.
 
Then, Zastava M85 Mini-Mausers in 7.62x39 show up on Century's site for under $400 and were confirmed to be IN STOCK when I ordered.  I'm thinking I could use it as a "almost 30-30" until I could have it rebored to a .357x39 eventually, but eventaually, the M85 never showed up.  Cancelled the order - resumed the Handi search.  Looked, waited.  Waited looked........  Still using the Rossi.
 
The new owner of the Chilean Mauser got a girlfriend and didn't need the Mauser any more.  Hmmmmmm,....  Nope, holding out  for a Handi.
 
JUST missed a .357 Max barrel.  Looked, waited.  Waited looked........
 
Spotted a svelte, nickel .357 max barrel on ebay...........  Unfortunately, someone outbid me by a huge margin.
 
Gave up and bought a WHOLE 30-30, shipped and transferred for less than that barrel the same night.  It won't be as easy to cast for but won't deplete the lead stash any quicker than  the .357, has the potential to make it easier for me to connect at 200 yards, brass is fairly available and I can do away with the small pistol primers in my inventory - only to add gas checks,..... maybe.  I will also have to buy some new moulds now, but the ones I have for the .357 cast great and I like the bullet designs.
 
If I see a .357 barrel, I will still grab it.  I still want one and don't know if I will leave it a .357 or ream to Max or Herret.  Max sounds really good for what I need.  In the meantime, all the merits of the 30-30 will do just fine.  Maybe it even makes more sense than  the .35 for me, but I do like the .35 in a "not-so-hot" chambering and still plan to  have one.
 
 

[cwlongshot]

Much as it pains me  to cast aspersions on my most esteemed friend and colleague CW....     I just dug out my ORIGINAL OFFICIAL "Make your Contender Perform  by one Bob Milek , (with adds for the NEW 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook) It shows a standard 357 mag load with a 158 gr JHP- 16.5 gr of 4227, from a 10" barrel  - 1575 fps. The Herrett 10 " same bullet, 26 gr of 2400 for 2190 fps. With a 14 " barrel it is 2340 fps.
     The 357 Max loads shown for the 10.5 " SBH (biggest mistake I made "gun wise" was trading that off,  let me pause while I blow my nose) with a 160 SIL load was 1650 fps over 25 gr of W680.
     There is a sizeable  difference there.  The Herrett is very close to the 35 rem actually, but with a rim, and as I said, a hard shoulder, and thicker brass.
            It is NOT a Whelan or a 356. It is a good performer for the do-it-yourselfer.

Mornin my friend!

 Not at all Comparing the Mag, or Max even come close to the Herrett FROM A PISTOL... That's why the Herretts where designed!! BUT from a RIFLE or say 20", NOW we have a race!!! 

The Mag W a 158, (In a 20"tube) is right at 2000fps (Better with judicious loading)
The MAX W a 180, (In a 20" tube) is right at 2300fps
The 35 Rem W a 200, (STD pressure in a 20" tube) Is right at 2100fps. (MUCH better with +P loadings)

NONE of those require case forming proceadures...

CW

[tlmkr38]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I guess I was thinking what improvement it would be in a rifle. not a pistol.  Still thinking about doing one as to be honest the idea of making the brass and all is appealing to me. 

[eskimo36]

If you look a little online, many former Herrett shooters have formed brass and ammo gathering dust.

[twoshooter]

The longer the bar s reason to go with a Herrett, that is true. IF I am able to swing one, it will have a 16.5" barrel. CW kept referring to "rifle" and mostly 22" barrels. I like my BC, there is just something about toting around that 32" barrel. BUT, not for everyday use. For that I prefer as short and light as I can. If I do the Herrett, I will do a Handi-grip stock & synthetic forend and a compact 2x7 scope or a 4 or 6X fixed. Hope to keep it to 6 pounds or less and about32" OAL.
        UNLESS, I get a reasonable deal on a 300 AAC (otherwise known as a 32/20 substitute)
     I have a sneaky feeling that my odds of finding an older 357 barrel ( Larry says an ejector would work best) for a reasonable price one day are better than finding an 300 AAC. The point of a carbine is that it is some more powerful than a handgun, but mostly the increase in accuracy due to the stock . It will be for use on small game and pests under 150 yards mostly. With my eyes, and not as steady as I once was, off hand handgun shooting beyond 25 yards gets "iffy" pretty quick.
      Also, this gives one a "custom gun" to play with without the expense of a rebore and radical alteration. I have the dies, the brass, the bullet molds, the load data already....... everything but a barrel.  Personally, this would be very worthwhile. As Granny said, "everyone to their own notion and she kissed her cow"

[giddens1972]

If you really want a nice 35 caliber, send it to SSK and have Mr. Jones make a 358JDJ for ya!  I have one, in an 18" barrel.  I'm getting 2700fps out of 180's and 2500fps out of 200's.  I havn't shot a deer with it yet, but I killed a 300+ pound boar with it last year!  It smacked him like you hit him with a bat!  Just another idea if you wanna go a different route than a Max, or a herrett.

[Jeff H]

....................... to be honest the idea of making the brass and all is appealing to me.

 As good a reason as any and I admire the ability to acknowledge simple desire/curiosity without feeling compelled to reationalize the choice by trying to convince otghers it's "better" or "necessary."  It doesn't have to be.
 
I think it's a cool project.  I didn't really NEED a .357x39, it was just a way to get someting sort of like almost a .35 Remington and be able to load it down efficiently too.  Plus, I could use it in a bolt-action rifle.
 
I've played with the .30 Herret, 7x57 Improved, .25 Souper and the .35 Whelen (before Remington "legitimized" it) and it was all a lot of fun plus I learned a lot.  I still like having fun and am still learning, so your Herret in a carbine has my attention.  Please keep us informed.
 
As for twoshooter's comments about 16' barrels, 32" overall lengths and "doing a bit better than a handgun," I am on board all the way with that.  The .35 I hope to build eventually will be just that.  I have a Handi Synthetic Youth in .223 and it is SO handy that I really want to replicate that with a .35.

[cwlongshot]

If you really want a nice 35 caliber, send it to SSK and have Mr. Jones make a 358JDJ for ya!  I have one, in an 18" barrel.  I'm getting 2700fps out of 180's and 2500fps out of 200's.  I havn't shot a deer with it yet, but I killed a 300+ pound boar with it last year!  It smacked him like you hit him with a bat!  Just another idea if you wanna go a different route than a Max, or a herrett.

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I AGREE!!

If your interested in one, there has been quite a bit written here... (AND you still need to form cases!! BUT its easier!)

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtkrtuWzEQRH8lSJNmCi7f7FP5JwT56gJOoFiBLCcwoI_3GcEFseRwHzNDHk__jq_bfrr_uKf79_vz1btoSzOrqSjnodyzZiiXpjYJIKWz2NfKCkVOZLFaYz8UrYseMTmmrFhD3Vv3o5AaRa8aXVHJjkYlIBdDxa2Up6azKY6uThJglMICKtTDJjyuuuOiOqlVmVhAsHktkQhNyiBdQi3RbqpPQZrCqF1MjQG-Jj2J3PhITtSmMTSH6E1ZBZpWQ0hyKeOjChNQgfwVmpiCHAgFefQ0TZQKwJMSzE0CPYxDAcMZpoGRvhvMGKixSRDOyYyWUPXQSUYzapXOMu5oA62BnGSWYIkZy1bbZLDlF7QwnMlm4zfgznXNvSE0yEHKsPO-JuJp92MX8QuCQX7aIqZiPi7H4syox61FEG1FVg8tmlhoYl5xbhIjpj2wA37Nzq97e7n8P2yXP3_P-23n_xl6f_69b7fD5fX88YVcrjd21_28P77sF3Q4_boCn_a3zch-vG4vnEub355-Pn0C6pOkMA..;start=0


CW

[twoshooter]

Then I would have to WASTE good 444 brass which is SCARCE and EXPENSIVE, instead of 30/30 which is plentiful and cheap. I also would not have a nice little carbine that shoots both cast and  jacketed pistol bullets, but a BIG honking rifle that produces lots of recoil and noise........might as well have a Whelan. Which I DO already.
   What I want to know is where the $#@&! you got those smileys !! 

[cwlongshot]

   What I want to know is where the $#@&! you got those smileys !! 

Why now I don't feel it's a waste at all. performance fare exceeding the Herrett with none of its pitfalls! ( making useable brass may seem easy, but having worked with it for years, better designs abound!   it offeres the same ability of shooting pistol bullets that ALL 35's do.
As for scaresity of brass, not all of us are so effected.  

CW