will play mess up training

[markdeerhunter]

Hi, I am going to get a wirehaired pointing griffon as soon as the pup is ready. I am going to train the dog for hunting when it reaches the appropriate age. My question is if my wife and son play ball with the dog without using proper training techniques will it mess up the formal training I will be giving it?

[gone-hunting]

I always provide the dog with a go play command, anytime someone else plays with the dog then this is the same thing even though they do not provide a command. When working, the dog will know the difference and will work to commands. If you give the go play command in the field, it is the same as at dismissed in the army. The dog can do anything it wants to. I would use the go play command to play with the dog and they enjoy this command as well as working commands in the field.

At present, I am out of the field working dogs and only squirrel hunt with a dog.

This is my 2 cents on playing with a dog

[freddogs]

I think all time you spend with your dog is good. I don't see where playing ball would hurt anything. I have a new pup this year and I started hunting training right away. She's 8 months old and points, retrieves on land and water , and hunts. She is still at a puppy level and I think will get better and better. Hunt training is fun for her. I just encourage the stuff she wants to do naturally.

[Don Fischer]

There is a major problem in play training to retrieve. The release. If mom and the kid's start playing tug of war with the pup then that's what it learns. Teach mom and the kids to take the ball properly, pup must release it! You could try blowing in it's nose but some dog's require more air than my lung's hold. Some trainer's get next to the dog and blow it it's ear. That help's avoid being bit by the dog,,,at least the first time. The best way, and I can guarentee it'll work is as follow's. Get down on the floor with the dog and get ahold of him, DO NOT GRAB THE BALL. Hook your left hand in his collar and put your right hand across his back and stroke him. Along his back and down his side away for you until he start's settleing down. Now is the time and timing is everything; as you make a stroke down his side, as you reach his hind leg reach down with your two middle finger's and hook the flap of skin going from his belly to his hind leg, start lifting gently, say "drop it", and move your left hand to his mouth taking the ball, when you have the ball IMMEDIATELY, straigthen out the finger's of your right hand releasing him. You will have the ball in your left hand. When you start to lift he will spit out the ball and start reaching back to grab a hand that let's go as soon as the ball is dropped.

If you choose to just play tug og war, you may very likely have to cure hard mouth later on.

[Qaz]

Blow in the dogs ear! No wonder you see so many male dogs "humping " legs.

[RB Rooson]

In a word "NO"........

Dogs can differentiate between play and work.  

Gee, did I mention that "NO" that it will not??!!!!

[Don Fischer]

That's only sorta right. When you play fetch with your dog he's learning. Everything you do with it, it's learning. Can they tell the difference between play and work, seem to but they don't rationalize. Therefor if the dog learns to play tug of war, then at some point, you'll have to untrain that.  In the middle of the game you,YOU, change the rule's!

I judged AKC field trials and pointing dog test's some year's ago. The last trial I judged, for The Oregon Brittany Club, we had a dog in the call back for retrieve that was obviously play trained to retrieve. When it came back to it's handler, it ran around him staying just out of reach. The handler finally got close and grabbed a bird the dog didn't want to let go. When the handler finally got the bird, he and the dog pulled at the same time. The result was I was handed a bird with no breast. A dog should deliver a bird fit to eat; all the bird!

I have seen this happen to many time's in both AKC and in NSTRA when I judged there. Each dog was play trained and that delivery is exactly what the dog's were taught. YOU MUST PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOUR TRAINING! I have also had dog's brought to me with retrieving problem's like that. Usually it can be corrected by starting over, sometime's forced retrieving is required. That is punishment training. Non of these people that did this to their dog's did it on purpose. Many believe their dog's can differentiate any thing. They come up with "Oh he know's". Right, what he know's is what you've taught him; what you think, is that he understand's that he must conform to new rule's he's never been taught, wrong!

Never enough time to do it right the first time, alway's enough time to do it over tho.

It's simply not that hard, it's a dog that lack's the ability to reason, not a little four legged human with lot's of hair.

[rider]

You need to decide if you want a field trial dog or a hunting/family dog.  If it is the first of the two playing will only cause problems.  If you want a family/hunting dog playing is fine.  It will only create a stronger bond between you and your dog.

[Don Fischer]

That's not really true. I've trained mostly hunting dog's and I've had far to many people bring me dog's with problem's created while play training. Play training is ok BUT, watch what your training. If your play training to retrieve and in the process make your dog hard mouth, you've created a serious problem for trialer and HUNTER alike. Curing hard mouth is a job you'll possibly not be able to do yourself, probally not be able to. Likely as not it may involve force retrieve training. Gentler people like to call it command retrieve training but they're both the same and both involve a certain level of pain. You can avoid that by paying attention in the first place, PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOUR TRAINING!!!!!!!!! Play train to retriveve but don't create problem's for down the road! Now go back to my orgional post and you'll find out how to aviod the problem of hard mouth while putting absolutely no stress on your dog.