460 Smith Buffalo Bore shooters BEWARE......bad ammo

[Thebear_78]

This is a warning to any 460 Smith shooters reguarding Buffalo Bore ammunintion.

Yesterday I purchased a box of 360gr Cast BB ammo at the sportsmans warehouse in Anchorage, AK.  When fired from a Smith Xframe 460 first shot locked up the cylinder.  We had to use a rawhide mallet to knock the cylinder back out.  The brass showed massive pressure signs, it even blew the primer right out of the gun.   Tried a second shot with same results, locked up cylinder and primer blown out of fired brass.   Needless to say we did not shoot any more of this ammo.     

After searching in vain for a phone number to Buffalo bore a messege was left on BB contact form.   This is the responce We recievd.

"-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sundles [mailto:ammo@blackfoot.net]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 2:16
PMTo: suntiet@alaskacustomfirearms.com
Cc: 'M Wayne Brown'
Subject: RE: Contact Form Sent

Yes we know exactly what is going on. We developed our 460 loads based on early S&W revolvers--everything workedgreat. Then, S&W in their infinite wisdom, made some changes in theirchamber throats and barrel throats, which raised pressuresdramatically..........Since S&W made those changes, we've watered down our460 loads to accommodate the changes in the gun. You have some older, abouttwo years old 460 ammo, which will work great, the way it was designed to inthe earlier S&W 460 revolvers. Simply stop using it in that gun. IF you havea first year production S&W, it will work great in that gun.......sorry forthe trouble, but it was S&W that made the changes, (without telling any ammomakers) not us. When we first discovered the changes in the new &SW 460's,I'll bet I wrote a hundred emails like this one. Take care. Tim"

This seems like a pretty poor responce to me.  Luckily after calling the Sportsmans ware house they said they would return the ammunition.  They weren't going to at first but after hearing BB responce they said they would return or exchange the ammo.

As far as I can tell there isn't any Lot numbers on BB ammo. 

[williamlayton]

That is the problem with wildcatting any weapon.
Buying ammo off the shelf should not be produced to max of any gun. The loads, if you are so inclined, should be worked up to your needs.
I bump ammo--but I sure don't want to test what the weapon will take.
I have stayed away from BB for that reason---if I want a hot bullet I will work it up.

Now the preaching.
What in blazes do your want that hot of ammo for. There must be a reason. They produced ammo for their gun. Not ALL guns are equal--even from the same manufacturer.
I just don't see any need for any ammo that will punish a gun like that. It is overkill.

I think it is only fair to say that I am not talking to The Bear, but to all and trying to  warn. BB is blameing S&W when it is BB's responsibility to make sure that weapons changes fall witin what they produce. It is not the Weapons Manf's. responsibility to police what folks produce to be shot.
Soap box is clear.
Blessings

[irold]

I do not own a 460 Smith , that being said, This thread doesn't surprise me.  After purchasing my Ruger SRH 454 , I was looking for a good 45 Colt load for hunting whitetail , didn't figure I needed all the blast of the 454 cartridge.  I found some 260 B.B. 45 Colt.  After shooting the Buff Bore at the range for sighting in purposes , I was shocked at the recoil......I use a 240 XTP Mag over a max charge of W-296 for my heavy 454 load......The Buff-Bore had every bit of recoil as my 454 load....it didn't appear to have any pressure problems...glad I was firing it in my SRH and not a 45 Colt revolver.  However, there was a warning on the box,  Can't quote it now , but there was one on the box.  Buff-Bore definitely makes some stout loads.

regards , irold

[ole 5 hole group]

Buffalo Bore makes excellent “specialty” ammo.  One has to educate themselves relative to their firearm and what type of pressures it can handle.  If you like shooting full-on loads – good for you. 

I like to work up loads, so I know how far I can go if I “feel” the “need”.  I’ve abused my body more than once “pressure testing” full-on" loads, after which I normally don’t go back to these loads but at least I know the velocity and accuracy potential of that load in my revolver for the pain I endured. 

I look at full-on loads (at or over max recommended loading levels) much like aftermarket off-road bumpers utilized to prevent damage to the front & rear of your off-road vehicle.  If you want bumpers to not give an inch to a rock face, then don’t complain if the jolt breaks your neck. 

However, in Bear-78’s case, I would think BB should had issued a warning immediately upon discovering S&W’s modification of the 460 and possibly make an attempt to recall the ammo.  Maybe they did – I don’t know but to lock up an X-frame like that I would think the pressure must have been up there a ways.  Speaks volumes for the strength of that X-frame.

I haven’t had any dealings with BB but that posted e-mail from Tim speaks poorly of their company and had I experienced that handful and received an e-mail like that, I think, I would have felt the need to fire back a broadside.  Thanks for the heads-up.       

[Mohawk]

I will testify that their .38 Spl 158 gr Lead Hollow Point(standard pressure) 20C load is still rated faster than most Big 3 offerings in +P. But even with around 70-80 fps advantage the load only recoiled like a standard pressure Rem lead round nose. An awesome creation for older or non +P rated .38's!!!

[buck460XVR]

Soooooooo, they know they have some potentially dangerous ammo out there but don't recall it, or at least don't/won't post a notice about it?  I have a newer production  PC .460. It has tight throats and my handloads reflect this. It's hard to get past mid-level loadings in the older recipes before getting sticky extraction.  Knowing this,  I certainly wouldn't load a bunch to max from these recipes and then let folks shoot them thru similar guns hoping they all have an older model. Sounds like BB is more about making money and selling old stock than it is about customer safety.

[brotherjack]

My understanding, is that throat related overpressure comes from the bullet being in contact (or within a few .001's of being in contact) with the rifling.    Can someone explain to me how  this situation would occur in a revolver, where the bullet should have, at a minimum, a freebore the distance between the tip and the ogive.    ??


Thanks,

[S.B.]

Nice? Thaniks for the head's up.
Steve

[Mohawk]

Has anyone ever received a non form reply from BB? I have never had a reply at all, for anything. I like their ammo but it is common courtesy to communicate with your customers whether it is good or bad. My two contact messages were good in nature but still never heard from them.