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Offline gcrank1

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45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« on: April 29, 2011, 10:51:19 AM »
Ive got a Beta-Crony on loan and decided I better wring a few loads out before it has to go home.
The Lee 340 over 20.0 of TB with some old Alcan LR primers went 1274fps, again, more velo than I expected for the subjective signals a load gives. This is a full case below the bullet, not the manufactures recommended data, especially for the Springfield 'trapdoor'.
FWIW, I really like the feel of this load and at this velo it equals the venerable .22LR HV, which has a similar BC and thus drop (wind is a different matter) so figuring hold over, etc. is already in my mind.
I will try some other bullet weights as able and post them here also.
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Offline garbhead

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 12:27:49 PM »
How about the recoil?
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 12:44:15 PM »
I am not a recoil junkie! It is just fine, you know youve got a respectable load, but it will not abuse you or the gun.
I had loaded up some black powder loads first off last fall to get a feel for what the traditional loads felt like, and I believe they were stiffer feeling. In fact, I remember thinking that Custer's men were getting smacked on both ends.
I have a nice 1884 model SF '73 and will keep to the recommended load for it,but the H&R SS-HU takes these TB loads in stride.
My load with the Lee 405HB is 19.0 gr. of TB. IMHO you 45-70 fans would like either of these loads.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 02:45:44 PM »
I loaded all the way down to 11.5 gr of TB with a 330gr Lyman cast bullet. It is a short range cartridge, but very accurate and almost no recoil. I have a few boxes loaded and use them to dispatch raccoons and possums when they invade my garbage. Works real good! ;)

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Slowhanddd

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 03:01:12 PM »
I have some loaded up just like yours.If work would quit getting in the way of play time I'd have my BC sighted in with them.Had the gun for a couple of months and haven't popped a cap yet.
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Offline thejanitor

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 07:01:20 PM »
12 gr. of Trail boss with a cast 405gr is a very fun and accurate load. Recoil is less than a 410 shotgun and I honestly would not want to be a critter any bigger than a tennis ball at 100 yds.. For what speed the bullet is (or isn't) moving I am very impressed with the load. You could make a 45-70 into a one and only gun if it was all you had by adding this (or your own trail boss recipe) load to your list.
I have also used Trail Boss in the Hornet and in the .223, 30-30, 30-06, but the best I have found is the 45-70 and hornet for fun plinking.
Have fun but read about how to use it before just taking data posted here and going with it.
Take care, thejanitor
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Offline phatgemi

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 07:19:03 PM »
Too bad the 45/70 isn't legal for deer here in Indiana.......anywho, I do load up light trailboss loads for my 500 S&W (which is legal) and it's a fantastic load......TB is a nice powder to work with.
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Offline srussell

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 07:29:54 PM »
Quote from: phatgemi on April 29, 2011, 07:19:03 PM
Too bad the 45/70 isn't legal for deer here in Indiana.......anywho, I do load up light trailboss loads for my 500 S&W (which is legal) and it's a fantastic load......TB is a nice powder to work with.
   cut the case to legal length set your bullet out to AOL and go hunting
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Offline Farrier Matt

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 05:29:46 AM »
I dont have a 45-70 (yet) but have used some TB in my 25-06 and 243, and really enjoyed it. Its a nice powder. The loads were very accurate and are like shooting a rimfire. Its a good powder to have on the bench.
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Offline phatgemi

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2011, 07:45:23 AM »
Quote from: srussell on April 29, 2011, 07:29:54 PM
Quote from: phatgemi on April 29, 2011, 07:19:03 PM
Too bad the 45/70 isn't legal for deer here in Indiana.......anywho, I do load up light trailboss loads for my 500 S&W (which is legal) and it's a fantastic load......TB is a nice powder to work with.
   cut the case to legal length set your bullet out to AOL and go hunting


Wonder how that would do trimming a half inch off a case. Wondering about accuracy. Anyone done this and what are ballastics/loading??????

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Offline Dinny

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 09:05:33 AM »
It has been done. It's been discussed and documented on GBO in a few different forums. Perhaps a quick search, looking in this forum, the Indiana forum, as well as, the reloading forum. It's in there, I'm not sure exactly where though.

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Spanky

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2011, 12:08:08 PM »
I've been using TB in my 500 and I just loaded up some 38 specials with it too. I really like it, burns nice and clean and no recoil. :D



Spanky
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2011, 12:11:36 PM »
Spanky, are you loading a 'full' charge in those pistol cases or the reduced load? If you havent tried the full charge give it a go.
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Offline garbhead

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2011, 02:01:08 PM »
Found this link just now...very interesting read....

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

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12g shortie w/chokes,Tamer .410,12g "Buck" slug gun w/20g extra barrel, 12g smooth bore tracker I, 45/410 w/22vp matched set, 7mm-08, .308 20",

my avatar pic is my 1960 Rambler I bought in 1972 for $175..6 banger 3-on-the-tree...drove it for 5 yrs  22mpg.. was "hot-rodding" (LOL) one night...tore out 1st/reverse gear. Drove it that way for 2 yrs(with no reverse and only 2nd and high)  Had to really plan ahead when parking.
sold it for $125
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain

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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2011, 02:53:37 PM »
Thanx for link on this thread! That is the methodology Ive been using since starting with this powder, though I found the 70% to be on the very light end of the scale so I upped, for me, to 80% as a starter soon after. Especially note what No.1 says.
I am veryyyy curious what BB is going to find for use in the 45-120  ;)
I wouldnt mind at all if he adds that info here  ;D
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2011, 02:57:04 PM »
Quote from: phatgemi on April 30, 2011, 07:45:23 AM
Quote from: srussell on April 29, 2011, 07:29:54 PM
Quote from: phatgemi on April 29, 2011, 07:19:03 PM
Too bad the 45/70 isn't legal for deer here in Indiana.......anywho, I do load up light trailboss loads for my 500 S&W (which is legal) and it's a fantastic load......TB is a nice powder to work with.
   cut the case to legal length set your bullet out to AOL and go hunting


Wonder how that would do trimming a half inch off a case. Wondering about accuracy. Anyone done this and what are ballastics/loading??????

Sound like you gave me another project.  I think if I used a long bullet, maybe a postel, I could keep the bullet touching the lands and still have a bit in the case.  Touch the rifling should take care of the no crimp issue with a long seated bullet.  IN Legal is 1.625" so need to trim just shy of 1/2" from a 45-70.  We shall see. ;)
 
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2011, 03:04:42 PM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on April 30, 2011, 02:53:37 PM
Thanx for link on this thread! That is the methodology Ive been using since starting with this powder, though I found the 70% to be on the very light end of the scale so I upped, for me, to 80% as a starter soon after. Especially note what No.1 says.
I am veryyyy curious what BB is going to find for use in the 45-120  ;)
I wouldnt mind at all if he adds that info here  ;D

gcrank,

I have (2) 45-70s so I can play with the "slow" 45 cal bullets.   I've been using BP subs and 700X for the slow stuff.   I reamed out a 45-120 so I could go fast, doubt it ever sees any TB powder.  ::)   I am not recoil sensitive, but sometimes my forehead is. :P  I started pushing the envelope on the 45-120 with I3031, found the end of that powder and now working with I4350.  I will post "safe" 45-120  loads on ammoguide, I don't want Tim and GB mad a me.

BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Spanky

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2011, 08:14:36 PM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on April 30, 2011, 12:11:36 PM
Spanky, are you loading a 'full' charge in those pistol cases or the reduced load? If you havent tried the full charge give it a go.

I'm filling to the base of the bullet with no compression. Both of them are cast bullet loads, 370gr. for the 500 and 148gr. wadcutters for the 38.



Spanky
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2011, 07:46:56 AM »
Quote from: bikerbeans on April 30, 2011, 03:04:42 PM
I will post "safe" 45-120  loads on ammoguide, I don't want Tim and GB mad a me.

Well, after you post those loads, since you would obviously still have hands and eyes, I'll give them a try!   ;D  It's like having BB as my own personal pressure testing machine!   :D

Not ginna try your 3031 loads though...  :-\
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Offline ratdog

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2011, 08:27:23 PM »
i loaded up some 45-70's with 17 grns of trail boss and 405 cast lee bullet not much recoil i like a little more thump but not into pain going to up the charge a little. :) :) im going to try it in my 45 lc 250 grn cast lee bullet  my favorite load is 7 grns of win 231 sweet load in my rugers and uberti's.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2011, 03:28:57 PM »
Quote from: AtlLaw on May 02, 2011, 07:46:56 AM
Quote from: bikerbeans on April 30, 2011, 03:04:42 PM
I will post "safe" 45-120  loads on ammoguide, I don't want Tim and GB mad a me.

Well, after you post those loads, since you would obviously still have hands and eyes, I'll give them a try!   ;D  It's like having BB as my own personal pressure testing machine!   :D

Not ginna try your 3031 loads though...  :-\

Richard,

The I3031 loads I posted for the 45-120 are nothing crazy.  Pressure low enough you only resize the case mouth for a little neck tension and you are good to load again.  Now the rounds I launched that I didn't post about are another matter. :o
I do agree with you on leaving the I3031 alone regarding the 45-120.  It goes from a mellow to an extreme loading with just few grain increase in powder charge.   How's your 450 AtlLaw Express coming?

Blake, sorry for the thread hijack.

BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 and Trail Boss Chrono Tests
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2011, 03:40:30 PM »
No worries!, its ALL good!! Kinda like 'one stop shopping' for stuff on the 'big 45s'  ;D.
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      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974
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