Author Topic: 454 Elk Load (Read 2538 times)

HGunner · « **on:** May 07, 2011, 06:00:33 PM »

I would like to develop a quality hunting load for elk size game for my freedom Arms 454 with 6" barrel. What I am trying to avoid is full house 454 recoil. I have purchased some Cast Performance 335g gas checked bullets because I found a box locally. I am also looking at Barnes XPB 250 gr, Swift A-frame 265 & 300 gr and Cast Performance 300 gr. I would appreciate any thoughts about these bullets as well as information regarding your favorite heavy game load.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2011, 01:56:34 AM »

one of my favorite 454 loads is a 300 grain cast bullet and 23 grains of aa9 using a ww small rifle std primer. Its got plenty of power to kill anything and is realitively pleasant to shoot. About like a real heavy 44 mag load.

HGunner · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2011, 08:48:43 AM »

I have looked around a bit for the 300 grain hard cast. I am debating between the Cast Performance LFNGC and the RCBS SWC-GC as cast by Montana Bullet Works. The CP bullets are readily available from multiple sources by credit card order. For Montana bullets, they ship one week after they receive a check in the mail. Is the RCBS bullet worth the extra wait?

Hank08 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2011, 09:16:10 AM »

I use the RCBS 300 GC, cast by me 315 gr. with 22 #9=1350 fps. I run the bullets thru a swage to give them a larger meplat but any of those bullets you mentioned will work at that velocity.
Excellent large game load.
H08

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2011, 01:13:53 AM »

the rcbs 300 is probably my favorite heavy 45 bullet. Ive yet to find a gun that it shot pourly in.

HGunner · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2011, 03:43:59 AM »

Thanks Lloyd. You and BigMuddy seem to agree on this being a very accurate bullet suitable for heavy game. I'm sending my check to Montana Bullet Works today.

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2011, 05:15:19 AM »

I take an Elk every year. I have never known anyone to hunt them with a handgun. Yes, I read about hunters doing that and I have no problem with it. They are a very tough animal and they they can soak up a lot of hurt and still run 50 miles to die. I would think a .454 with any bullet of 250 grs or more with in 50 yards would work. The handgun does not deliver the shock of a Magnum rifle. That is why most Elk hunters use a weapon with heavy shocking power. Any Elk that does not go down with the first hit is going to require a lot of hard tracking. Every step the Elk takes after the hit is going to be two steps of hard work getting the meat to your truck.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2011, 05:25:53 AM »

Quote from: sidewinder319 on May 09, 2011, 05:15:19 AM

Every step the Elk takes after the hit is going to be two steps of hard work getting the meat to your truck.

And you can take that statement to the BANK!! Same goes for a moose.

Hank08 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2011, 06:13:36 AM »

Sidewinder and Ole 5 are right and that's something that you should definately consider before shooting an Elk with a handgun. I remember a friend shooting a 5 pt. Elk from about 40 yds. with a .338 Win. twice right behind the shoulder
and it never flinched just walked off like nothing happened, only went about 100 yds and piled up but, yes, they are tough.
H08

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2011, 10:21:36 AM »

Quote from: HGunner on May 09, 2011, 03:43:59 AM

Thanks Lloyd. You and BigMuddy seem to agree on this being a very accurate bullet suitable for heavy game. I'm sending my check to Montana Bullet Works today.

I would have to agree with Lloyd as well. That is the bullet I use in my 45 Colt. Also the WFN and LFN gc bullets. You will find that Montana Bullet works has some great bullets. I have taken so many game using them.

mk454 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2011, 11:14:24 AM »

wow, a 454 will lay an elk out. i've killed several with a 454, killed several buffalo with a 454 and it hits a bunch harder than most medium caliber rifles. energy means little to nothing, if you're not gonna run the load flat out use a cast bullet 300gr or over, i use beartooth 340 grain bullets and you will drop any elk, and can do so much further out than 50 yards if your skills are up to it.

HGunner · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2011, 11:33:23 AM »

Hi Mk454,

I would love to have some details on your favorite 454 loads. Feel free to PM me if your not comfortable putting load data on the forum.

Thanks,
HGunner

41 mag · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2011, 12:40:53 AM »

While I haven't used it on Elk, I have used mine on several decent sized feral hogs.

I have been shooting the 265gr WFN GC over a decent dose of 296, and have shot through, end to end, on a few 200+ pound hogs. Picking the heavier bullets I would see no issue putting one to task on an Elk. They make a big hole going in, and disrupt and break everything in between on their way through, making another big hole going out.

Good luck on your hunt.

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2011, 04:16:36 AM »

MK454 I can't imagine a life long Elk hunter saying any load will put down an Elk everytime? In my 50 years as a hunter and guide I have never seen a perfect anything. If you have used any caliber for that many Elk surely the law of averages would have visited you. It has every hunter I ever knew.

mk454 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2011, 04:45:40 AM »

sorry, but i fail to get your point. what qualities would one elk possess over another that would somehow make it immune to a given load? this makes no sense, the only reason it wouldn't work is if my marksmanship fails, which could happen, but that is not a problem with the load. there's no variability in this. i'm not sure i get why there would be variability.

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 18, 2011, 03:22:18 AM »

MK454 I see you reside in Texas. That is not Elk country. You maybe shooting under controlled conditions. Texas Game farms are not like hunting Elk in its natural habitat. This is most likely why we have a disconnect. I live in the Northern Rockies. Elk is part of our daily experience. The normal migration thru my place is over 2,000 head per season. Even Non-Rez hunters to the Rockies seldom have enough time to really understand the taking of Elk.

HGunner · « **Reply #16 on:** May 18, 2011, 04:19:57 AM »

I have certainly seen significant variability in the response of the 8 or so deer that I have shot with the 44 magnum but all were recovered. The result of hollow point chest hits (including shoulder) has been good to very good. I used a JSP only once as I got no expansion on a broadside double lung shot at 45 yards. This deer ran about 60 yards and laid down. I waited 15 minutes and went to find the deer. It got up and ran about 100 yards to where it was found in thick brush (with the aid of a dog as there was almost no blood trail). This is the example that makes me leery of any non expanding bullet. That's why I continue to debate between a premium hollow point such as the Barnes or Swift vs hard cast.

mk454 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 18, 2011, 07:45:29 PM »

wow, pretty incredible assumptions around here! texas is a big big state btw, i actually live within 2 hours of pretty prime elk country and have taken many head of elk. wow, show some pics of your handgun killed elk. even if one was taken on a ranch, a load that'll work there will work anywhere and it has. anyway, a load that'll take rhino, elephant, cape buff, bison and the largest brown bear will certainly and reliably take an elk, any day.

mk454 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 18, 2011, 07:47:25 PM »

i have personally taken several oryx, over 10 buffalo both bison and waterbuff and over 10 elk with handguns of various calibers in the last 10 years. i know what will work and what won't when it comes to handguns.

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2011, 05:30:43 AM »

I am familiar with the "Canned Hunts" in Texas. I am very sorry but I can not compare these Urban outings to real Elk hunting.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #20 on:** May 19, 2011, 09:03:02 AM »

Quote from: HGunner on May 18, 2011, 04:19:57 AM

I have certainly seen significant variability in the response of the 8 or so deer that I have shot with the 44 magnum but all were recovered. The result of hollow point chest hits (including shoulder) has been good to very good. I used a JSP only once as I got no expansion on a broadside double lung shot at 45 yards. This deer ran about 60 yards and laid down. I waited 15 minutes and went to find the deer. It got up and ran about 100 yards to where it was found in thick brush (with the aid of a dog as there was almost no blood trail). This is the example that makes me leery of any non expanding bullet. That's why I continue to debate between a premium hollow point such as the Barnes or Swift vs hard cast.

HGunner - IMO I don't think a premium HP would have made any difference - a double lung normally results in the deer taking off like a raped ape - a nice blood trail depends on the fat etc plugging the hole. I think the premium HP on a double lung will bleed him out a little quicker, so he won't go as far, but there are just some animals that refuse to lay down and will go at mach speed until they pile up.

I've never had much luck at a DRT shot with either a rifle or revolver unless it was a CNS strike or I broke both front shoulders and decided to "waste" a couple pounds of meat.

My previous comment to sidewinder319's post was I sure know what it's like to put a lethal hit on a big animal just to have him bolt off into the bush going a quarter to half mile before giving up the ghost - firing that lethal round is the easy part - processing that bad boy in the bush and either quartering him out or boning him out is no fun at all. That extra quarter or half mile part though tough country does seem like an extra 10 miles when you are doing the carrying. Sounds like ole sidewinder has a little experience carrying meat that "extra distance".

mk454 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:25:31 AM »

yeah some are high fenced and some are "real elk hunts"

. being in colorado doesn't make them freaking bullet proof. wow, some really dumb statements from sidewinder, not even a remote bit of intelligence from those posts. an oryx in texas dies from the same shot one in africa does. an elk in the backwoods of montana and one in a highfenced ranch in texas all die from the same shot, having them hang out with you in the mountains doesn't make them grow kevlar in their hide. to assume they're all highfenced is the pinnacle of assumptions. you proved the saying, if you assume you make an ass out of ............well just you.

and this thread is about what load would work on an elk, not an argument about hunting ethics

dk17hmr · « **Reply #22 on:** May 20, 2011, 10:05:13 AM »

I am finding it hard to agree with most things posted in this thread....other than the 300 gr cast bullet.

I have a 45lc load for my TC contender that pushs a 310gr WFN cast bullet at 1450FPS. Lately I have been shooting 370gr SWC in my 454 at about 1300FPS. Either one of those will sail through a broadside elk. I would stick with 300gr + and a WFN cast bullet in your 454 keep you shots closer than you would a deer and you should be good to go.

My other tip is hunt up hill from camp or the truck......a pack frame on your back is alot lighter going down hill than it is going up hill.

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2011, 10:15:26 AM »

It is too bad you have to resort to name calling to make your point. Thanks for the discussion on elk hunting.

mk454 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 22, 2011, 09:58:04 PM »

so you make a very broad assumption on my hunting and where i hunt based on where i live, do it twice and you're surprised by the comment. we both know that wasn't name calling, that was using a very very old saying about assumptions you prolly first heard back in an elementary school classroom. if you're gonna make assumptions like that and make those statements you should expect that type of response.

Graybeard · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2011, 11:55:24 AM »

ENOUGH!

Get on topic and stop directing the posts at each other. Perhaps some here need to read the rules again.

tanoose · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2011, 10:53:03 AM »

back to topic i have never taken an elk but if i had the chance i would use buffalo bores 360 hard cast. this ammo shoots great in my srh 454 with 7.5"

Fire Fox · « **Reply #27 on:** September 17, 2011, 07:07:07 PM »

I have been using the Lee 300 gr gas checked bullet hard cast and heat treated with 31 gr of H110 and a small rifle primer for quiet a while with great results. It has worked well on Deer, Hogs, and two asian buffalo all were one shot dispatches. Another good load for me has been the Precision Cast bullet in 360 grains with 28 gr of the same powder but a mag small rifle primer. Both of these should work well if you do your part. The 300 gr put down both of the buffalo with shoulder shots and were under the skin on the other side on one and went all the way through on the other. I would think you would get complete penetration on Elk out to 100 yards or farther. I prefer shoulder shots which breaks something important if I can but have had very good blood trails with heart lung shots and short track recovery on large hogs and deer. Just my opinion for what it is worth. With either of these bullets and the ones you were thinking about things should be fine if you do your part. I hope this helps.