Wisconsin Concealed Carry?

[jcn59]

The battle is between Constitutional Carry (shall not be infringed) or "permit" Concealed Carry.

We already have unrestricted "OPEN" carry here in Wisconsin.

So here's the question:   Are we better off with unrestricted OPEN carry than we would be with permit concealed carry with the government database of gun owners?   What do you think?

[powderman]

We have CCW here in KY and I like it better than open carry. If you are concerned about the govt knowing you own a gun I imagine they already do. If you have ever gone through an ncic check or had a hunting license, they know. Concealed is comforting in certain situations. POWDERMAN. 

[Doug B.]

The battle is between Constitutional Carry (shall not be infringed) or "permit" Concealed Carry.

We already have unrestricted "OPEN" carry here in Wisconsin.

So here's the question:   Are we better off with unrestricted OPEN carry than we would be with permit concealed carry with the government database of gun owners?   What do you think?

This does not deal directly with the OP question regarding the government database of gun owners, however I would like to comment on the response of a local LEO near Eau Claire when he and I were discussing Wisconsin's current open carry law.

I asked him, If I were to legally open carry, let's say in downtown Eau Claire, staying legal distance away from any areas with restrictions (Federal buildings, schools etc.) would I run into possible problems? His response was, Yes, likely, and I would write you a ticket. For what was my response. He indicated that all it would take would be for one person to "complain" and I could be handed a ticket for disorderly conduct. This despite the fact that I was not brandishing the firearm, or threatening somebody with bodily harm. This would also include not saying a word to anyone. Doing absolutely nothing against the law as it is written in Wisconsin's current books.

I remember a few years back there was a guy open carrying in Minocqua I believe. He was on his own property mowing his lawn, minding his own business and a huge stink brewed which involved the courts. Honestly never knew complete details. I remember it carried on for some time, months I believe, and I don't remember exactly what transpired. I believe he was relieved of any wrong doing, but at one point they were trying to decide whether or not he should get his firearm back in his possession.

So........How "unrestricted" is our present open carry law and what provisions within the law need to be provided in the future to assure this doesn't happen to those that wish to carry legally? There needs to be something written into any bills that might be passed in the future to avoid "harassment" for those who carry, open or concealed. I believe this is VERY  important and needs to be addressed.

Food for thought. 

[jcn59]

Doug, thanks for the well thought out response to my post concerning Wisconsin's supposedly unrestricted open carry.  It brings to mind that there are always risks associated with exercising our God given rights which are "protected" by our Constitution and Bill Of Rights.

I live in a small town in Wisconsin and I've met most of the players in our law enforcement and court system.   I trust that they not only will protect my rights, but also that they won't arrest and charge me for exercising them.  Maybe time will show that I misjudged their integrity, but for now, I will be exercising my right to open carry.   

I will not be carrying a shiny S&W 500 on main street, or anything of that sort, but when I walk my dog in the park, the stocks of a very discreet revolover will be sticking out of my back pocket whenever I feel it needs to be there.  I very seldom see anyone else in that park.  If I did, I would go somewhere else.   

[Doug B.]

jcn59,

I like your discretionary attitude regarding open carry as it is (or perhaps isn't) accepted in Wisconsin at this time. It will be a long road to educate the general public, which includes those opposed to any kind of carry. And let's not forget those who oppose any type of gun period.

Irregardless of what type of carry Badger State residents will be granted (for lack of a better word), we as law abiding firearm (not just handgun) owners need to band together and keep our "heads on straight". Loud boisterous rallies and the such resulting in negative media stories will not boost our cause. Keeping abreast of proceedings involving the Senate and perhaps more importantly the Assembly, and lots of well thought out letters to our representatives will do considerably more good for our ultimate goal.

We need to get a positive word out to our elected officials and remind them that as residents as well as voters who put them in office to begin with, our inalienable and deserved rights which have been in effect even before Wisconsin became the 30th state May 28, 1848, are well past due.

We need to write letters, be aware of what's going on and portray fellow firearm owners in a positive manner. We will see this happen.

   

[jimster]

There were places in Michigan where the police had the same views as what was mentioned here about open carry.  (Still some places like that)

He indicated that all it would take would be for one person to "complain" and I could be handed a ticket for disorderly conduct. This despite the fact that I was not brandishing the firearm, or threatening somebody with bodily harm.

Seems the citizens took some of these places on and won, the police in those places now do what they are told instead of what they want.
You won't ever get anywhere unless someone challenges these types of people. 

It's true there might some risks associated with taking these people on, but it's well worth it...because if you don't it won't matter what the laws says, or what they pass at any level...you won't be free to exercise your rights either way.  Sounds to me like a group of people need to take these cops head on...and end the nonsense.  What good are open carry laws if you have police who won't follow the laws?

By taking them on...I don't mean shoot it out...I mean get a small group together and go talk to the police chief for a start..then go up from there.  All the way if you have to.  Fight those tickets too...they can be beat.  I like concealed carry myself, but I can't tolerate the police overriding laws. Lucky for me I am in an area that has been through this, the laws won, not the police.  If nobody challenges them, they always win.

My 2 cents.

[tt4617]

This was passed yesterday and waiting for the Governor to sign, which he says he will.

[Empty Quiver]

Are you figuring that open carry without a permit will allow you to fly under the radar so to speak? I don't quite get the concern, you have mentioned that you are familiar with local law enforcement. They would then be familiar with you and your gun as well I would have to assume. If it were their job to confiscate guns rest assured guns would be collected.

In the mean time why thumb your nose at those who have concerns with carry? It is now legal to carry concealed or not. You going to strap that handgun over your jacket this winter? You run a real risk of being busted for concealed if that J-frame is a bit low in the pocket.  I'll bet that once you try to carry "illegally", meaning you are somehow convicted of any gun related offense, you won't have the option to do it legally.

Exercise your new found legal rights. I got my permit with the intention of rarely if ever carrying, just to add numbers to the stats. I have since begun to carry much of the time.

[jimster]

Are you figuring that open carry without a permit will allow you to fly under the radar so to speak? I don't quite get the concern, you have mentioned that you are familiar with local law enforcement. They would then be familiar with you and your gun as well I would have to assume. If it were their job to confiscate guns rest assured guns would be collected.

In the mean time why thumb your nose at those who have concerns with carry? It is now legal to carry concealed or not. You going to strap that handgun over your jacket this winter? You run a real risk of being busted for concealed if that J-frame is a bit low in the pocket.  I'll bet that once you try to carry "illegally", meaning you are somehow convicted of any gun related offense, you won't have the option to do it legally.

Exercise your new found legal rights. I got my permit with the intention of rarely if ever carrying, just to add numbers to the stats. I have since begun to carry much of the time.

This is only my opinion.

I don't live in Wisconsin, I'm in Michigan, and the same things were happening here concerning OPEN carry...we squashed it in many places, it was not thumbing our nose at anyone, it's either LEGAL by law to carry open or it's not, some people here decided to have their rights UPHELD, and they won, and it's good they did.  A law that some people do not like to enforce is bad for all of us, including open carry.  I personally carry concealed most all the time, a few times I have chose not to in certain places...real rare for me, but I would not let anyone write me a ticket for it because of how THEY feel.  They can change the law if they don't like it.  Period. 

I use the option to have a cpl because I think it's smarter....I also think it's smarter most the time to conceal, with very rare occasions where I don't.  There was a time when Michigan did not let everyone carry with a cpl, in those days I did what I wanted...it was a ticket as I remember, with no criminal intent all they could do was ticket you and that was a misdomeaner.

Exercise your new found legal rights. I got my permit with the intention of rarely if ever carrying, just to add numbers to the stats. I have since begun to carry much of the time.

I totally agree...100 percent...excersice those legal rights and add to the numbers for cpl's...good plan. But do not let anyone anywhere take away other legal rights you have, such as open carry, fight them all the way, you WILL win....and so will all other people win and you will put people who try to take your rights away in their place...and that will be a good thing. 

[Empty Quiver]

Jimster, Mn law is much the same. A permit to carry, concealed or not, your choice. I don't believe open without a permit is legal though. I could well be wrong. I would rather have the permit as stated earlier.

 It's been said before  "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride".  I don't have the time, money, or ambition to play in the court system. Cops arrest me it's just another day for them. Fill out paperwork, go to court house, or not... they get a paycheck either way.

[jimster]

Jimster, Mn law is much the same. A permit to carry, concealed or not, your choice. I don't believe open without a permit is legal though. I could well be wrong. I would rather have the permit as stated earlier.

 It's been said before  "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride".  I don't have the time, money, or ambition to play in the court system. Cops arrest me it's just another day for them. Fill out paperwork, go to court house, or not... they get a paycheck either way.

In Michigan you don't need a permit for open carry.  Open carry is legal by law.  I have not seen a problem in my area with the police writing tickets or arresting people for open carry, but other area's in this state have...and some people did take the time to fight it, and won, and changed the entire area and what the police can do.  I am grateful these people took the time to fight.  I would "take the ride" myself before letting a corrupt police force take any legal rights away.  Well worth it.  If you don't...your "permit" could also mean nothing as well, that would be up to them as well...right?  Would you fight for that right?  Basically...if your not willing to fight, it's ALL up to them.  Even your permit is worthless if some police force where you are says so...if you let them.

they get a paycheck either way.

17 years ago there was a county cop who parked his cruiser everyday while on duty at a woman's place to get some, we called and complained each day, finally took pics and video's, found out his "working hours" and took it a few steps higher, then another step higher.
Threatened to go much farther and incude the local press.   
 

He no longer receives a pay check here.  It was worth the trouble to get him off the street.  It was well worth the trouble to see him come out of there (finally) buckling up his pants and gun belt with the lieutenant and a couple other officers waiting for him too.  Took about 5 months to get this all done and a lot of time.  I would have spent years if it would have took that long.  He had pals inside the force so it took some time.
 

[myronman3]

one other thought...set 500 aside and retain a lawyer before you even get your permit.  if anything happens, or if anyone trys to intrude upon your rights, it is sooooo much easier to whip out the card of the attorney that you already have on retainer, who you have already had a discussion with about your intentions and what you expect out of him should the need arise; than to hunt down, retain, and explain what is going on to an attorney after something happens or when the police are intruding on your rights.   threats and talk are cheap, dial the attorney, hand the phone to the police officer, and let your attorney explain it to them.  show them that you are not just barking, and that they WILL be dragged into court and have to answer for their actions.   this is what i am doing.   
   it also should be said that the wisconsin attorney general j.b. van hollen has dictated that people practicing open carry lawfully shall not be prosecuted. 

[jcn59]

Haven't had any problems of the sort.   Most of the things I've worried about never happened.