Doesn't make Remington look very good

[guzzijohn]

Below is three postings from a thread in Shooter's Forum. If the below was told accurately it does not look good for Remington.


I just thought I would update my posting regarding my Remington M700 MLR Police rifle in .338 Lapua. After sending it back to Remington and after Remington found it after having misplaced it, it is in worse condition than before I sent it back to them to have it repaired. Remington said they lapped the bore, trued the action and lapped the lugs. They returned it with a target that I would be embarassed to show anyone (2.5 inches at 100 yards). I cleaned the bore and re mounted the scope. I inserted the bolt and it wouldn't move smoothly and it was very tight closing the bolt. I attempted to remove the bolt but it wouldn't come out of the action. I loosened the stock screws and the bolt moved freely and came out without a problem. I took the rifle to a highly respected target rifle builder and they told me the bolt was bent and the action was not bedded properly and the bore and chamber were in terrible condition. They quoted me a price over double what the M700 was new to correct the problems and said they couldn't guarantee the accuracy beyond 1 inch at 100 yards.
I have decided to rid my life of the piece of junk and to never waste my money on any Remington unless I have proof that it shoots well.
Thanks for letting me vent.

I was told that a 5 inch group at 100 yards was acceptable for a Police sniper rifle, I had an almost impossible time getting anyone to pretend to be interested (I had to get someone from their corporate headquarters in the Carolinas to pull rank), they had it for over a year and lost it. They insisted they shipped it back to me via UPS but couldn't give me a tracking number and didn't seem to care that it was missing.

Good luck with getting Remington to do anything with it. I recently bought a Remington M700 MLR Police sniper rifle. It wouldn't shoot worth a darn, so I took it to 2 world known rifle builders and had them take a look at it. They both told me the barrel was not finished properly. I contacted Remington and couldn't get anyone to show any interest in correcting the problem. I had a friend in the industry call one of the head honchos at Remington and he finally got action. I delivered it to their Ilion NY plant and waited months; and months; and months. No one contacted me, so I called them. They told me they fixed the problem and shipped the rifle via UPS to me a few months ago. I asked for the UPS tracking number and they couldn't find it. I contacted UPS and they had no record of delivering it to me. I raised some he-- with a supervisor and after a few days they found the rifle. I got it back, mounted a Leupold MkIV scope on it and it still wont shoot. I have 7 M700's that shoot great (all sporters), the one "long range sniper rifle" I buy from them won't shoot 4 inches at 100 Yds. and they say that that is acceptable.
As I said before; good luck!

[Buckskin]

I always question any full blown attack on a reputable manufacturer.  Who knows the full story, or if there even is one...  My Remy's have never let me down and I won't let an internet slander piece alter my opinion.

[351 power]

i think any company can have a lemon. had a few myself. every rifle is an individual

[guzzijohn]

i think any company can have a lemon. had a few myself. every rifle is an individual

Once again, if true, I hardly think five inches at 100 yards is acceptable for a what is called a police sniper rifle.
 GuzziJohn

[Swampman]

I don't believe any of this.

[Bigeasy]

Its obvious that all three postings are from the same person, so its one person with a problem, not three.

Without having the rifle to examine, who knows how accurate the description of the problems are. 

I do know that if the bolt would not function when it was in the stock, but worked fine when the action was removed from the stock, then the bolt was not "bent".  It was probably catching on the wood in the tang area.  No matter how badly bedded, I can not believe you could tighten the action screws enough to bend the action, and bind the bolt.

So I take it with a big grain of salt.....

Larry

[351 power]

i'm not questioning if this rifle is or is not 5 moa. i just don't buy the huge generalization that all of their rifles are flawed. and you gamble on every rifle you buy. if it wasn't a gamble how much fun would it be?

[whitetailmaniac]

On a 700 if the front screw is to long it will bind on the locking lug on the bolt. I had it happen when i installed an aftermarket stock on one of my rifles. its an easy fix.

     Chris

[Lloyd Smale]

keep in mind that dealing with these guys isnt dealing with good old boys anymore. Gun manufactures are big corporate bussiness like anything else anymore. I had a simular dealing with ruger with a 257 roberts ultralight that would do about 4 inches at a 100 yards. I send it to them and they sent it back with a letter stating that all they did was test fire it and it fell within there accuracy standards. the test target then sent showed 3 shots into about 2 inches or a bit more. I never got it to shoot that well and although it still wasnt what i wanted i did want to know what they had shot in it so i called them. they said they shot factory corelock ammo at 50yards!!!!. I got mad at the gun and asked him how many bolt guns of his did he test at 50 yards!. He said 5 inch 100 yard accuracy was there make or break standard. I told him that it was a joke that i can shoot an open sighted winchester 3030 into smaller groups at a 100 yards then a ruger  bolt and they claim thats normal. So i dont doubt for a minute that remington told that guy what he posted. If anything in the past ruger has been better then remington to me when it came to fixing guns. I know swampman will argue but it is definately possible to get a remington or any other brand of rifle that doesnt shoot.

[drdougrx]

I agree with Lloyd.  I have to wonder what they are thinking.  My Remingtons were out of the box more accurate than my Rugers ( I have several of each).  All of my Ruger bolt guns and 10/22s have been rebarrelled, retriggered and tweaked.  Remingtons generally get timney triggers and bit of bedding occasionally...nothing else.  Having said that...corporate culture is to produce more, sell more and cut costs.

[Swampman]

They weren't thinking anything, because it didn't happen.

[pastorp]

Swampman,

You can't say weather it happened or not, since you were not there. There simply is no way any of us could know for sure.

Regards,

[yooper77]

I am sure it happened, but there is always two side of a story. We will never know the whole story.

I have only one Remington 700 in 22-250 Remington. I began life as a synthetic stock ADL matte finish and 24 inch barrel. I bought all new Remington SPS matte finish floor plate/trigger guard/clip and synthetic stock. It wears a Leupold rifleman 3-9x50 mm scope with Leupold standard base and medium rings. This setup shoots extremely accurate with nothing else modified, but the new Remington parts.

I also have a Ruger M77 MKII in 270 Winchester factory everything which wears a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40mm scope. This rifle easily shoots SUB MOA with my handloads with any 150 grain bullets and IMR-4831 powder.

yooper77

[guzzijohn]

As I clarified in my opening post "if told accurately" which had been pointed out may or may not be as with any forum post. The three paragraphs were separate posts with different names so I assume they are not all posts from one person. My concern was not so much that Remington may have let out a defective product (can happen to any company) but what their supposed response to the supposed problem was. IMHO 5" at 100 is not acceptable in this day age for any production rifle let alone one that is called a "police sniper".
GuzziJohn

[eye shot]

For a military rifle to be accepted it has to group 3 1/2" at 100. 5" sounds way off.

[NYH1]

For a military rifle to be accepted it has to group 3 1/2" at 100. 5" sounds way off.

Maybe for a open sighted semi or full auto assault rifle without any type of optic.  There isn't a branch of the US Military that would accept 3 1/2" groups at 100 yards from a sniper rifle.  That's a 21 inch group at 600 yards, that won't work in a sniper roll.  Even the old M14's that have been refurbished and put back into service, scoped and set up for company and platoon size "designated marksman rifle" use can shoot almost as well as bolt guns and are no where near 3 1/2" groups at 100 yards.   Remington guarantees their model 40-XB Tactical Rifle will shoot 0.75" maximum 5-shot groups at 100 yards.  It says it on their Law Enforcement web site.  Their police and military 700's should be close to that.   

I wouldn't accept 5" groups at 100 yards from a Remington 870, 1100 or 11-87 slug gun with a fully rifled barrel and scope shooting sabot slugs at 100 yards.  Both of my 11-87's, one a 12 ga. the other a 20 ga. shoot around 3" groups at 100 yards with Lightfield Sabot slugs.  I might get better groups once I try different sabot slugs. 

I have two model 700's.  One's a BDL 223 Rem. that shoots well under an inch, about 5/8" at 100 yards.  The other is a Classic 280 Rem. that's right around an inch at 100 yards.  these aren't "police or sniper rifles".  I'm sure others could get even better groups.  I love my 700's and have had really good luck with them and Remington.  They took care of a 870 12 ga. I had trouble with.  Of course that was before the "Pre-Cerberus Remington".

[jhm]

     Instead of a grain of salt make it a salt BLOCK.   Jim  I dont believer it either

[pastorp]

I personally don't have any trouble believing it happened, but of course like was already there are always 2 sides to the story. Remington does seem to be having a lot of quality controll issues I just hope they don't really believe 5" groups are ok.

Regards,

[ihookem]

I believe it. It only takes one a hole on the service department to screw the whole process up. Some just don't care. I have heard and experienced Remingtons not being what they used to be. I have one that shoots 3" @ 100 yds and 6-8"@ 200 yds.  I also got an H&R superlight in .243 that won't group better than 3" @ 50 yds. and 6" @ 100 yds. I have bought older 700's that shot so good I couldn't believe it. They are selling cause they are " REMINGTONS" and the name sells period. They do fit me better than any other gun though.

[Swampman]

Remington isn't having quality issues and the above is fiction.

[hillbill]

ive never had a prob with a rem.but then most of mine are OLD.i dont buy any gun hardly less than 20 yrs old and dont have many probs with them.the only guns of any kind i seem to have probs with are newer ones

[roper]

As I clarified in my opening post "if told accurately" which had been pointed out may or may not be as with any forum post. The three paragraphs were separate posts with different names so I assume they are not all posts from one person. My concern was not so much that Remington may have let out a defective product (can happen to any company) but what their supposed response to the supposed problem was. IMHO 5" at 100 is not acceptable in this day age for any production rifle let alone one that is called a "police sniper".
GuzziJohn

guzzijohn,  all three paragraphs are from them same poster and the last paragraph was posted 6/7 mos earlier.  I found his old post on the same forum and copied it posted under his last one and the only reason I remember it was a friend had a rifle like his but was a good shooter.  Anyway that poster never has come back to explained what if anything he posted was true or not.

Seems like he was getting alot of traction on bashing Remington problem was he couldn't get his stories straight first  post "I took it to 2 world known rifle builders" last post he  "took the rifle to a highly respected target rifle builder"

Same on getting his rifle back first post "shipped the rifle via UPS to me a few months ago. I asked for the UPS tracking number and they couldn't find it. I contacted UPS and they had no record of delivering it to me. I raised some he-- with a supervisor and after a few days they found the rifle.

Now his last post "After sending it back to Remington and after Remington found it after having misplaced it, it is in worse condition than before I sent it back to them to have it repaired."

I always call it fact or fiction in this case I think the poster was trying to boost his image on Shooter Forum happens all the time.