Author Topic: Making Field Cannon Carriage Wheels. (Read 13680 times)

carronader · « **Reply #90 on:** May 10, 2011, 09:34:00 AM »

Yes I did Zulu , although the carriage has ground to a halt. needs a kickstart or I do.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #91 on:** May 12, 2011, 04:24:04 PM »

Quote

Zulu -

"Wheels, Wheels, Wagons & More," 1984 by Melvin L Dewitt will be headed your way tomorrow.

Bill Twigg out in Idaho built wheels with the late Mel DeWit... hard to ask for a better master than that.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #92 on:** May 17, 2011, 12:47:01 PM »

There is a apparently a lot of interest in this subject. I check occasionally and find that quite a few people are viewing this thread. A lot of views since the last post on May 19, 2010, 489 views since February 27, 2011. Looks like a needed thread that could use additional input .

Zulu · « **Reply #93 on:** May 17, 2011, 01:26:46 PM »

Quote from: Max Caliber on May 17, 2011, 12:47:01 PM

There is a apparently a lot of interest in this subject. I check occasionally and find that quite a few people are viewing this thread. A lot of views since the last post on May 19, 2010, 489 views since February 27, 2011. Looks like a needed thread that could use additional input .

Okay Max,
Show us how you build spokes.

Zulu

Cannoneer · « **Reply #94 on:** May 17, 2011, 01:50:15 PM »

Zulu,
Have you given the book from CW a once over yet; if you have, would you write us a brief review?

Zulu · « **Reply #95 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:22:24 PM »

Cannoneer,
I recieved the book yesterday. I grazed through it. I will give an overview when I study it in depth.
Zulu

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #96 on:** May 17, 2011, 02:56:21 PM »

And in your spare time... later... maybe you could do the same for the forum for the Morrison book The Modern Wheelright. What with having built wheels yourself your insights should be more on point than some of the rest of us. I'd like to know how the two compare with each other...? ?

And thank you... very much.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #97 on:** May 18, 2011, 02:00:48 AM »

Today From Jay Jones of CustomWagons.com:

Hi George,

Trust all is well in your little corner of the world….

We could build a cannon wheel to scale of our 30", but as far as being completely historically accurate, I would be a little concerned. The cannon wheels we sell are at least representative of civil war cannon wheels, and very close to being historically accurate, however, not necessarily museum pieces. If the customer can supply the specs, I'm sure we can do it.

Should you have questions, or if I can be of assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Thank you again George,

Jay Jones

Custom Wagons

www.customwagons.com

Yesterdays Products Today

(859) 887-9432

(859) 885-1377 Fax"

Jay's hubs, despite all their claims (advertising) to the contrary, are undersized... slightly. The untrained eye does not notice it... however... If they are to go down in scale sizes with a 14 spoke wheel, an undersized hub gets pretty busy with all the spoke interfaces... SO I would recommend they do these smaller scale wheels with a slightly OVERSIZED hub so as to enhance the probability of good integrity in the wheels. Hub bands are supposed to be tapered and pressed or heat-shrunk onto the hub so the nave box, when pressed in, combined with the spokes loading inward toward the hub when tires are shrunk on don't all combine to split the hub into kindling and splinters.

So:
How true to scale does everyone think these have to be? Would a say 10% oversizing of the hub be acceptable?

Soot · « **Reply #98 on:** May 18, 2011, 02:37:42 AM »

Personally I would be more concerned that the wheel had the dish to it, even if it had fewer spokes. Dished wheels look so much better than straight wheels on field carriages.

Double D · « **Reply #99 on:** May 18, 2011, 03:48:46 AM »

A 14 spoke dushed, in 1/4 and 1/6 scale of the No 1 carriage wheel. 100% correct detail not needed. It's the scale that is important. Scaled down so it looks right.

The 57 inch wheel would be 14.25 inches in diameter, the 1/6 scale would be 9.5 inches in diameter.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #100 on:** May 18, 2011, 05:19:24 AM »

Have look at customwagons 14" wagon wheel...

http://www.customwagons.com/store/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=1081

Sent the following to Jay this am:

Jay,

Please look at the attached link for a forum about cannons

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?board=88.0

You can follow the thread about wheels here:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,206652.0.html

Someone also suggested being as you are in the business you are that you may be interested in becoming a "sponsor" with regular advertising in the site. Brouse around the site and see what that means, costs, etc. and if you think it would be something you'd be interested in.

As for the wheels we have been discussing...
Their "global moderator" who is one of at least several pushing for the smaller wheels has stated: "

A 14 spoke dished, in 1/4 and 1/6 scale of the No 1 carriage wheel. 100% correct detail not needed. It's the scale that is important. Scaled down so it looks right.
The 57 inch wheel would be 14.25 inches in diameter, the 1/6 scale would be 9.5 inches in diameter."

There are other comments about assuring a nice dished look... So YES on scaling the 30" cannon wheel and maybe as the hub gets pretty busy with 14 spokes, you might want to make it a little larger... your's (the 30" ones) is currently a bit undersize so going a little larger scale-wise would be just fine. Doing four hub bands that small might be a bit tricky.
Beings you already do a 14" wagon wheel maybe you could start with that and make the hub larger and bump it up to 14 spokes. Is that 14" wheel dished??

Thanks for you interest and help,

George

Cannon Wheels · « **Reply #101 on:** May 18, 2011, 05:26:42 PM »

Hello Everyone,

I would like to think Douglas, one of the moderators of this forum, and some of the members for contacting me and asking me to come on the forum and explained some of the process in making cannon wheels.

First let me give you a little background on our company, we are a family owned and operated business and have been making Wagon wheels, wagons and various wood products for over 45 years. When I say family that includes Uncle Ted the drunk and crazy Cousin Larry. We have two locations for our shops, one is in Eastern Kentucky and the other is in Eastern Pennsylvania both in the Appalachian Mountains. We currently sell and produce some 2000 wagon wheels a year, included in this production is carriage wheels and cannon wheels.

Our normal production of cannon wheels includes sizes from 24” to 57”. The cannon wheels we make and sell are at least representative of civil war cannon wheels, and very close to being historically accurate, however, not necessarily museum pieces. If you want a museum quality cannon wheel we do make custom wheels and we do have wheels in various museums.

Please do not misunderstand the following statement as being condescending, it isn't meant to be that way all, it's just a simple matter of fact. I normally tell people who contact me for information on how to make a wagon wheel, or for parts to make a wagon wheel, the following. “If you are a Christian prior to making your first Wagon Wheel there is a good possibility you won't be when you finish.”

The process that is required to become a master Wheelwright is one of many years of hands-on apprenticeship. As many of you have noticed, China does not make Wagon Wheel's for sale in America. There's a very good reason why China does not make wagon wheels, the making of a wagon wheel that is acceptable in America is a cross between technology and artisan. The Chinese have never been able to master the artisan part of the process.

We sell a lot of wheels in Australia even though the shipping to Australia is more that the price of the wheels. The reason that is given us for the popularity of our wagon, cannon, and carriage wheels is Australia is the quality of the wheels over the Australian made wheels. This is nice to know due to the fact that as Americans we do not have a lot of exports anymore, especially if you take away McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Today with all of our technology and our ability to clone human parts, no one has been able to produce a machine that can build a wagon wheel. In our shop today, we still use tools that are over 100 years old to build our Wagon Wheels. While modern tools and technology have helped us in our production, the basics of building a Wagon Wheel is still done today as it was 150 years ago.

Most people do not understand that making a dish in a wheel is actually controlled by the size of the steel tire that is used on the wheel. To properly get the dish in a wheel you have to pull the wheel together, too much you'll bust out the spokes in the hub, not enough and you have the tire lose and coming off the wheel. You will notice that the spokes in a wagon wheel are set different that the spokes in a cannon wheel, yet, we can dish the wagon wheel just like we do the cannon wheel. This is done when you hot set the wheel correctly so that the tire pulls the wheel together to form the dish.

From what I understand from Douglas and your members, most of you are interested in the smaller wheels, 14 spoke, 14.25 inch ¼ scale and a 9.5 inch 1/6 scale. We can make the ¼ scale without much of a problem; however, the 9.5 inch wheel is kind of like me getting dressed in the mornings, trying to put 10 pounds of fat in a 5 pound bag. It is very hard to get all you want in such a small package of 9.5 inches. Anything above 14.25 we can do, anything below that will have to be hand tooled and carved as we have to maintain scale. The best thing that you can do is to email or send me the drawings that you have of the wheel and hub you want to have replicated and let us go from there.

I have inserted a picture of an 11 inch wheel we made for JORDAN REDUCTION SOLUTIONS, as you can see it has 12 spokes, however, can see the quality and the workmanship.

Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am not the sharpest knife in the draw; however, I will attempt to answer any questions that you throw at me. If I do not know the answer, we have an excellent staff that can. So feel free to ask and I will try and get you an answer ASAP.

Jay Jones
www.customwagons.com
Custom Wagons and Wood Products

Double D · « **Reply #102 on:** May 18, 2011, 06:15:43 PM »

I contacted Mr. Jones this afternoon and talked with him about smaller wheels. He was very cordial and informative. Normally we would not allow a post like this as Mr Jones is not a sponsor...I'm working on changing that.

If you have any questions about the wheel making process, please feel free to ask. If you wish to talk to Mr. Jones about buying a wheel, please take that off the board until such time as he becomes a sponsor.

After he becomes a sponsor he can sell his wheels on this board.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #103 on:** May 18, 2011, 07:45:53 PM »

DD said:

Quote

If you have any questions about the wheel making process, please feel free to ask. If you wish to talk to Mr. Jones about buying a wheel, please take that off the board until such time as he becomes a sponsor.

Not just exactly sure what DD is saying by "that" or to whom... I've been trying to be a facilitator... and that is all. Am I supposed to delete something?

Double D · « **Reply #104 on:** May 18, 2011, 08:30:53 PM »

You aren't "that" . , "that" is any direct discussion by anyone to buy a wheel from Mr. Jones. Mr Jones is not a sponsor. He can't offer anything for sale here. I want him to become a sponsor, so I am allowing him to tell us what he has to offer and what he can do for us.

I also want us to feed back to him what we are looking for, in hopes he will see us as a potential market and perhaps tool up to provide what we need and become a sponsor..

There is nothing wrong with sharing your good experience with a supplier. That's part of the purpose of the board, sharing experinece.

You are doing just fine....if we can get Mr Jones on board as a sponsor that will be fine also.

You will find we are quite loyal to our sponsors. They pay for this board to operate and that allows them to sell their wares here. They are the only ones who can advertise on the board.

I can assure you, if you had posted something wrong, I would have deleted it and you would have heard from me off line.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #105 on:** May 18, 2011, 09:11:32 PM »

Thanks for the response... I was worried I'd crossed a line somehow...

I guess at least not until my next post anyway

I hope something does work out as I have a 20mm barrel, 2.36" OD and 26" long that would make a great 1/4 scale 1861 Parrot (w/muzzle swell). I'll continue to lobby Mr. Jones as well as I am going to have them do a pair of 12 spoke 36" wheels for a Verbruggen field carriage I'm going to do... Just now I am waiting on research for hub detail for them.

Thanks again.

GeorgeN/GOW