The "green" thing ...

[ironglow]

   A sign of the times...much of the plain, old, common sense folks universally possessed has vanished.. to be replaced with new new flashes of brilliance..



             THE "GREEN" THING !!

          In the line at the store, the cashier told the older woman that she should
bring her own grocery bag because plastic bags weren't good for the
environment.

The woman apologized to her and explained, "We didn't have the green
thing back in my day."
The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. The former generation did
not care enough to save our environment."
>
        SHE WAS RIGHT, that generation didn't have the "green" thing .....in its day.

Back then, they returned their milk bottles, soda bottles and beer
bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and
sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So
they really were recycled.
But they didn't have the green thing back in that customer's day.
In her day, they walked up stairs, because they didn't have an escalator
in every store and office building.
They walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower
machine every time they had to go two blocks.

But she was right. They didn't have the green thing in her day.

Back then, they washed the baby's diapers because they didn't have the
throw-away kind.

They dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning
up 220 volts - wind and solar power really did dry the clothes.

Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always
brand-new clothing.
But that old lady is right, they didn't have the green thing back in her
day.
Back then, they had one TV, or radio, in the house - not a TV in every
room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief, not a screen
the size of the state of Montana .

In the kitchen, they blended and stirred by hand because they didn't have
electric machines to do everything for you.

When they packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, they used a wadded
up old newspaper to cushion it, not polystyrene or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, they didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut
the lawn. They used a push mower that ran on human power.

They exercised by working so they didn't need to go to a health club to
run on treadmills that operate on electricity.
But she's right, they didn't have the green thing back then.

They drank from a fountain when they were thirsty instead of using a cup
or a plastic bottle every time they had a drink of water.

They refilled their writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen,
and they replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the
whole razor just because the blade got
dull.

But they didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes
to school or rode the school bus instead of turning their moms into a
24-hour taxi service.

They had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets
to power a dozen appliances.

And they didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed
from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza
joint.



But isn't it sad that the current generation laments how wasteful the old
folks were just because they didn't have the green thing back then?



[I hope you GET IT, the point being that we of the older generations
didn't NEED the Green Thing, as we weren't anywhere near as WASTEFUL as the
Modern Generations are. And most of us oldies still aren't so wasteful.

[Shu]

+1 the difference between depression era and green is often humorous in my opinion.

The greens preach recycling but yet dispose of everything into landfills.

Depression era, recycles everything and throws nothing away.

The green wants everything right now and will go to extremes to get any so called neccesity.

Depression era would wait and save money to buy luxury items. ( greens call them neccestities)

Green doesn't count the cost the same way as previous generations do. Green has credit cards and knows how to use them.

Depression era has cash and very little bills.

The only thing I can blame the depression era folks for is not smacking some common sense into thier kids hard enough to have an effect on thier  green grandchildren.

Technology is great but it has a price.

 

[ironglow]

  Amen ..#1 Shu...

[mcwoodduck]

I am all for the reduce, reuse, recycle.  As long as it makes economic sense.
If it makes econoimic sense then we should not need laws to do it.
If it is a moral thing like the dolphin safe tuna where people were made aware and they said we want line caught tuna in the cans even if it costs more.
There were years when you were not allowed to carry bags into stores and there were check in places with security.  At least in NYC depsartment stores.
The problem I do have with the green people is they want to lock down the economy.  NO growth of manufacturing, power generation (yes they are screaming about wind and solar plants but at the same time they are demanding that they take the place of coal, natural gas, and nuke plants not adding to the total supply).
A while ago my friends kid and I were headed to go shoot sporting clays and he was telling me about wind and solar they were teaching in school.  On the way we went by a wind farm, not one of the blades were turning on an over cast day.  I asked with the cloud cover and the lack of wind how is your teacher going to fuel her electric car, keep food fresh, and keep the factories that make the goods she uses running.  Fossil and Nuke fuels are the only reliable sources of energy.
If the greens were genuine then they would want all manufacturing, drilling and refining done here in the US rather than Mexico and China.  Fueling our economy and keeping the planet clean.  If they really looked at it they should want one ton of pollution here in the US rather than 8 tons in the trail from China here, if it was global rather than local.

[tinbender]

Mornin',

At age 53 I find that my views have changed through the years toward most groups. No group seems now to be completely right and few completely wrong in my mind.

I was the only child breast feed in my family. Not because my folks were green or wizened by their folks but because we were a family of six living on an airman's pay. My parents were embarrassed as at the time the popular thought was that only the very poor would do that. The "green people" support this now as a more healthy and natural way to start a child. I realize now that just because that group supports this it does not make it less than it is

Now before I'm labeled as a liberal bleeding heart type  know that in my day the "granola"..."tree hugger"...."green people" (pick your handle) were the butt of many a snide remark. I disagree today with some of their "issues" as I do some of the far right hand beliefs.  I no longer believe that what ever there group says is always wrong ( and not saying you do) or that what another group says is always right......any group

We live in a rural area and the first Prius drivers were a bunch of the above mentioned whack jobs in my mind ...... what do wife and I drive most of the time now?....YEP

For people to want what is available in their generation has always been a common denominator IMHO.  A recent quote(forget the source) " The saying should have been....Invention is the mother of necessity "

Just thinking out load, Dave   

 

[Hooker]

Driving the Prius may make you feel good about yourself but it is neither green or economical.
The average Prius owner would have to drive the car for 25 years to realize a savings.
The technology and materials that go in to building the car are far from green.
When the car is ready to be recycled the foot print of the waste will exceed the value of the reusable scrap.
This is not an attack on you or your efforts I think that anyone who attempts to do what is green is at least trying. This is just a friendly FWI.
So many things that are touted as "green"  are only green in use. The manufacture and disposal  of these items sadly in the majority of cases over shadows the attempt to be environmentally friendly.

Pat

[tinbender]

No offence taken hooker,

Though I'm not sure what waste in the car is an issue any more than any other car. The batteries are recycled I believe.

What makes me feel really good is the 50mpg! My other vehicle 1994 f150 4wd 300 I6 5speed 17-19mpg on the road, not bad for a truck but@$4.00gal I feel wasteful using it if a truck is not needed.

Yes the technology in the prius costs but the other cars on the lot were also expensive. I used to be a "buy american" guy in the past but I do like toyota products. When it comes time to buy again I'll look at U.S. products again and make a decision then.

100k/50mpg*$4.00gal=$8000

@18mpg=$22,222 if I did the math right

Not to mention the greater amount of materials in f150 or the greater contained energy to turn the materials into a truck.

Priding myself on being a common sense guy this decision seemed to make some. Other green ideas are simply not there yet IMHO.


But I have been mistaken before Dave

ps. what if tomorrow gas was $7.00gal?

[ironglow]

  Of course, no particular group has all the answers and I back sensible conservation in every aspect.  We should recognize that there are two types of greenies.  One type , perhaps as tinbender who are the real greenies.. genuinely concerned with environmental issues; then there are the "watermelons", who get the most headlines.  Watermelons of course are green on the outside but red inside.  These individuals use the green message to put forward their anti-capitalist "red" agenda.  They use environmental issues to suppress any capitalism in the US.  Just as McWooduck  pointed out with the petroleum industry.  If we had the drilling done here we could enforce closer controls and better environmental standards.  Instead, the greenies force such operations in areas where we have no ability to oversee.  This doesn't trouble them though....
  When was the last time our greenies got onto the case of China, Russia or Venezuela for shoddy drilling practices ?....
ery much an apples/oranges comparison
      Your choice of vehicles is certainly your choice and none would deny you that.  Comparing a Pickup truck and a Prius however, is truly an apples vs oranges standards.  When was the last time we saw a Prius carrying a cow and her calf, a cord of wood or 3 medium shoats ?
  I have a Toyota Yaris, which give me 38-40 mpg and on a trip, up to 42 mpg..while doing the same job the Prius is doing....and at 1/2 the original price.  My son recently bought a new Ford Fiesta and he claims better mileage than my Yaris.
   Here , in cold snowy weather..will the prius maintain the same mileage when a heater is required ?  It seems that no matter how you cut it, when much heat is required , say at -5 F or below, heat would require either a resistance electric heater or running a comventional water cooled engine full time..don't know if the mileage would hold well for that!  ...And Of course at lower temps, batteries are terribly inefficent..and electric to charge is no free.  How is that electric generated..coal..oil..water ?  Makes a difference.
  My daughter-in-law's sister & husband in Oregon got a Prius in place of their pickup and a year later went back to the pickup, claiming no savings with the Prius.  They gave the Prius to their daughter for short runs to and from college. Theirs may be an unusual case however.

[sidewinder319]

Turn more of the corn crops into Ethanol.  This reduces milage and drives up the cost of fuel.  The more corn that is turned into Ethanol the more corn cost.  The high cost of corn causes starving Mexicans to invade North America. North Americans see the cost of food products spiral.  Corn prices drive meat, eggs, milk prices Etc. And even though the U.S. has more energy reseve than any place on earth we have resorted to wind mills for energy.  Americans 2 generations ago found wind mills to be a poor  unreliable source of power.  The "Green" movement a product of the bankrupt 60s generation should crawl away and die.

[ironglow]

  Also; even though food costs have already spiraled upward, we are having a VERY WET YEAR in the heartland and the northeast, where most of our basic food is grown.  How much will food cost next year ?

[magooch]

This thing started out with the idea of people bringing their own bag to the grocery store, rather than using paper, or plastic.  I worked in a paper mill where we made the paper for those paper bags and in fact we also made the bags.  I'm sure glad this recycle greenie thing wasn't going back then.

[tinbender]

"watermelon"....very big chuckle.

Good points guys. In northern Arizona here so heat not so much of an issue but yes I think 45mpg or so if it does run allot. Fortunate to have a truck and an economy car though I like driving a truck more than the car.

I only brought up the Prius as an example of how my thinking has changed through the years. There was a time if my brother and I went hunting he rode with me or we took two trucks since his toyotas' seat and my butt were not going to meet

Did not mean to stray from the OP so much. I don't disagree with using other than a plastic bag but we can all disagree with how an idea is presented no matter where it came from if done badly.

I do agree appearance can deceive. Paper has traditionally been dirty process to manufacture. The big corp. in the past have ruined some good fishing with the damage they have done in the interest on making  that p/l report. You can still catch fish at my brother-in laws but you shouldn't eat them as there are six paper mills above him on the androscogin river. It was much worse years past and the old timers tell that the river actually caught fire once....true?  don,t know but it was dirty. Not a very green picture IMHO. It does not make sense to ruin  our rivers but that is not why they  have spent years repairing the damage....the paper companies were and are forced to.

The "greenies" (making myself chuckle ) tend to believe in protecting the outdoors that is so important to the folks here.....I can agree with that idea. I have had an instinct to buck their "leave no trace" policy in the past mostly because of the abrasive way it has been put to me. In years past a favorite place was Sheeps crossing on the verde river which at one time not many people even knew or cared about it. Not long ago a kayak trip with my son and friends through the verde wilderness area that we end at sheeps crossing made me sick by the sight coming around the last bend. The wise leaders thought they should improve the dirt roads so more people could enjoy this wonderful place ( not far as the crow flies from Phoenix) Which now is not such a wonderful place I won't beat the drums of their policy but is there an outdoorsman alive that wants to see that happen?  In their own sometimes misguided way they are trying to do something positive which the people that are ruining places like sheeps crossing are not.....I can respect that.

Do I want the group lobbying to have the dams on the Colorado destroyed to return a natural river? of course not the dams are there for flood control, power generation, water reserve and recreation....though mexico probably wouldn't mind

Have not talked so much in a long time.....thanks for listening Dave

[ironglow]

  Dave;
  I think we are riding the same horse with perhaps a different set of reins    Most here are hunters and/or fishermen.  I doubt anyone here approves of pollution in any real respect.  The way the watermelons put it, unless you agree with them 100%..then you're a wilful polluter !  No way, I want wilful polluters prosecuted also !
  Many of those leftist 'control-freak' groups operate that way.  The so-called "anti-war" groups are at war with the rest of us.  How many sensible people do you know who are actually "pro-war" ?  Still the "anti-war" people seem to infer that unless we camp out in ditches, stop arms shipments, bomb the Pentagon..throw garbage at police etc...then we must be pro-war !
    I'll admit that I am not pro-surrender when threatened by some tin-pot dictator, but definitely not pro-war !

[mirage1988]

Im 40 but I still remember when you could go to a store and buy a product that had only a price sticker that needed to be peeled off before you could use it. Now it seems everything is wrapped or packaged is a box filled with padding or foam or blister wrapped.
All of that useless packaging ends up in the landfills but you don't hear a word about that from the watermelons do you? (good analogy IG)  I try to shop carefully but it still seems that I end up with a full garbage can every week and a full recycling can every two weeks.
 

[tinbender]

Yes Ironglow,

Perhaps we think alike in many ways.

Mirage1988,  As far as the way an idea is communicated all you need is to read the political forums to see that all groups have people that you must either agree with 100% or you are the enemy. Irritating to the point that what good is there is often lost

I'm certainly not pro-war either but made myself available to the U.S. Army for six years in the event there was no choice. I do believe that to spend american lives the real goals...and reasonable expected outcome needs more consideration as a life once lost can not be regained.


My thoughts may differ from some other honest american's but that does not make them my enemy.

Dave

[Lost Farmboy]

The modern green movement is a joke and a scam.  Just one thing in the OP would do more for the environment than the whole modern green movement.  Go back to returnable glass soda bottles.

[mirage1988]

How about refillable water bottles? What a concept huh?

[tinbender]

I don't find the green movement a joke even though the over zealous can make it look that way sometimes.

I would like a good world for the grand kids to enjoy.

I years past someone was standing over the dead carcasses of a herd of Bison saying " never run outa them!"  now its a once in a lifetime hunt

For the record I have been wasteful in the past in the name of convenience....like to think I'm not to old to change


Dave

[flintlock]

The modern green movement is a joke and a scam.  Just one thing in the OP would do more for the environment than the whole modern green movement.  Go back to returnable glass soda bottles.

I agree...Anyone else ticked because you can't replace your wiper inserts anymore...They stick you for the whole blade and frame, instead of buying 2 rubber inserts for $6 bucks, you pay $8-12 for one frame and insert...

[mirage1988]

I would like a good world for the grand kids to enjoy.

Dave

Unfortunately for everone that thinks like you there is  lazy slob like the one that cleaned out their car into a grocery cart at the grocery store today, what a jerk!

[ironglow]

  Doesn't that irk you...when some jerk has obviously dumped an ash tray in a parking lot..or tossed a dirty diaper the same way !
   I just figure some slob such as that must have "been brought up in a landfill" !

[beerbelly]

Yes  The modern green movement is a joke and a scam. It is not about green, it is about redistributing the wealth! The liberal ,communist,  democrats have high jacked the green people.

[mcwoodduck]

How about refillable water bottles? What a concept huh?

When I was a kid we called them canteens and every one in the boy scout troop had two.  A plastic one and a GI issue Metal one and a few had the canteen cup to heat up water for Soup, tea, or hot chocolate.  The new refillable water bottles look like the old fuel containers we used on long range hiking trips.

[tinbender]

How about reloading,

There is a recycling activity everyone can can agree on...unless you are anti-gun I suppose. Might as well get the whole good from that brass before you pitch it. Once in a while I would take my youngest son to a local favorite (not mine) shooting pit. Nasty trashy place where we would load crap in the pickup when there was a free town dump day...finally gave up. He did used to bring a grass rake and turn in old brass. Didn't make allot but at that age a few dollars made him happy.

[beerbelly]

I would go for putting a deposit on all liquid containers, say a quarter on all bottles. The streets and roadways would not be littered with them, nor the land fills. Make them all returnable like they used to be.

[ironglow]

It's a nickle abottle here..I'd like to see a dime or whatever it takes to get the job done.  Actually, the bottles with the 5 cent bounty are not doing too bad, since some regulars are always out "bottle scouting". 
   There has been talk of including non-carbonated bottles..water, wine, juices, tea etc, but haven't seen it yet. It should go on though, because water & juice bottles are the main offenders in my area.
   It only takes one or two  slobs to spoil things for everyone..