Red Dot on my M4. YUK!

[Dee]

Got a Red Dot sight for my M4 back in March mounted it, and zeroed it. I thought this was gonna be a good deal, until I tried it on a milk jug a 100 yards. No precision, it almost completely covered the jug at that range. SO!
I put the Leupold 2X7 back on, re-zeroed it for 225 yards, and put a barrel mount on for the laser sight, and zeroed it at 50 yards. I have shot the M4 so many years with a 2 power Leupold on it, I doubt the red dot was that much faster anyway, if at all, and the laser is for night time varmints that try to double team my Jack Russell. And two legged varmints as well. I also think it could be useful if a coyote comes from the wrong direction and gets in close before I see him, and maybe hogs in the creek bottoms. Either way it has a pressure switch, and I mounted it directly in front of the front sight, so it ain't in the way.
The red dot on my Buckmark is a dream for squirrel and night time cats and skunks. That one I like with range being considerably closer. Heck, I may put the other red dot on my squirrel rifle.

[jmayton]

Yeah, most of those more inexpensive red dots have 4moa dots.  My rifle shoots a lot better than 4moa so I couldn't stand something that large, especially at the ranges I generally shoot.  Something with a 1moa dot and a 10-65moa circle would be much better, but I still like having some magnification, so my Millett stays.  I'm learning to shoot it like a reflex when it's on 1x and it takes a little getting used to, but definitely helps with the close, fast stuff. 

I guess this follows the wisdom of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." 

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got a couple aimpoints on ars with 4moa dots and would surely have no probleme hitting milk jugs out to 200 yards with them. Trick with an aimpoint is not to crank up the brightness to much. Keep is as dim as you possibly can and still see it good. Shooting at targets a 100 yards away ill agree that a 2x scope is just as fast but when the range is under 25 theres no comparison a dot is much faster. Ive got one ar set up for varmiting and its got a 4x acog on it, which buy the way is about the best compromise sight out there. My other ar15s in .223 have aimpoints on them. They to me are self defense guns. there used to defend my home inside and out. They may not have the precision to make 200 yard hits on chipmunks but surely any man at 200 yards is in big trouble. My hunting ars have scopes. MY ar10 is fitted with a 2x7 leupold and my ar15 in 762x39 has a trijicon accupoint 1x4x30 which by the way is right up there with an acog for versitility. On 1x is basically a dot optic and can be cranked up to 4x for long range. Only reason i wont say its even better then an acog is ive heard there not nears as well built. If i could have only one ar (God forbid) and had to use it for anything, it would wear an acog.

[jmayton]

I suppose you could, in theory, and if you could only have one ar, hang all the optics you want on it.  With all the offset mounts available, you could put your Trijicon on top, an Aimpoint above it, an ACOG offest beside it on the right, and a reflex on the left of the handguard at 45.  That still leaves enough room for a light, laser, and vertical grip.  Sure, it'd be about 12-15lbs, but it'd be versatile.

Truth is, I think you've got a good idea about the ACOG.  I might go with an Aimpoint with a 3x mag, myself, but you can't go wrong with and ACOG.

[Ruskin]

Midway had an aimpoint 2X 2MOA dot on sale.  I realize that at 100 yards my sight picture is 2".  I bought it for quick sight acquisition.  It might be better to look at Aimpoint, or accept your limitations at 100 yds.  Close in 4 moa might be acceptable.  Most guns will shoot better than 4 moa.

[jmayton]

Here, if you can't decide, just do what I said above, put them all on there!

[Lloyd Smale]

some people have the missconception that if you use a 4moa dot a 4moa groups is the best you can shoot. IF that was the case how would guys shoot moa with open sights. One other way to beat it is to sight your 4moa dot like a handgun sight. Use a 6 oclock sight picture using the top of the dot as the aiming point. You can do this and when you have time for a very precise shot use the 6 oclock and for fast shooting put the dot on what you want to hit and pull the trigger. Somewhat simular to the way you use an acog. Bottom line is that even using the dot centered on an aiming point i have no probably shooting 2moa with a 4moa dot on an ar and most times i do even better then that.

[jmayton]

Lloyd, I totally agree, but all that being equal, my 1 moa dot at 4x will have a level of precision above a 4moa dot at 1x.  Generally, most people don't know how to take full advantage of whatever sighting system they use.  But I can see how going from a small crosshair to a 4moa dot would be difficult and would take some getting used to.  I like circle dots or something similar because I've used it a lot and gotten used to it.  I can handle different reticles or dots, but the circle dot seems most comfortable to me.  It's really a matter of personal preference and the AR platform certainly allows for a lot of options.

[Lloyd Smale]

what sight do you have with a 1moa dot? I can see how it would be more precise at say 200 yards but its seems to me that a 1moa dot would be hard to pick up shooting fast in bright light. Like i said only one of my ars is used for varmit hunting and the rest are used as ars were designed to be used, for self defense and offence. Not much need for a civilian under any circumstances to enguage a human target at even a 100 yards and if it ever was a 4moa dot is capable of minute of man at 200. Ive used 2moa aimpoints but to be honest i like 4moa better. Turned up bright they work better in bright light and at combat ranges and turned down dim they are plenty precise.

[jmayton]

Lloyd, I have a Millett DMS 1-4x.  It has a 1 moa dot surrounded by an 18moa circle.  The circle is great at 1x and close range, then at 4x you can pick up the dot and be more precise.  The glass isn't as good as the Trijicon,  but it's 1/4 the price and is built like a tank.  I'll keep running it until it breaks.  I've thought about switching to an aimpoint or eotech, but I would sacrifice the magnification.  I'm learning to use it like a red-dot at 1x shooting with both eyes open, but like all 1-4x scopes I've looked at, there's some edge distortion that is distracting when you move from target to target. . .just have to learn to ignore it.  I will say that the distortion is more significant on the Millett than the Trijicon and the other higher end 1-4's.

[mcwoodduck]

The size of the dot needed to see during the day makes them a point and shoot sight, not something to take a cap off of a soda bottle at 200 yards like a scope does.
I had one on a little single shot 22 mag for night time coyote.  Worked great fro that but was a lousy squirrel rifle in the day time.
I can see the advantages of a red dot on a slug gun or on an AR as a back up fpr snap shots.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive thought about trying one of those. I read alot of reviews by owners and got a mixed response. Some love them some have had problems with them. the real downside i see is for a combat weapon i dont want to have to turn off and on the lighted sight or worry about grabbing it with the  batterys dead. I realize a guy can use them without the lighted reticle but it doesnt do you much good in the middle of the night to have to fumble with turning on a sight or finding out about then you left it on the last time you used it. Its the main reason im not a fan of eotechs either. Even my comp2 aimpoints will last over 2 years left on and the trijicons never need batterys. But a guy surely pays for that luxury.

Lloyd, I have a Millett DMS 1-4x.  It has a 1 moa dot surrounded by an 18moa circle.  The circle is great at 1x and close range, then at 4x you can pick up the dot and be more precise.  The glass isn't as good as the Trijicon,  but it's 1/4 the price and is built like a tank.  I'll keep running it until it breaks.  I've thought about switching to an aimpoint or eotech, but I would sacrifice the magnification.  I'm learning to use it like a red-dot at 1x shooting with both eyes open, but like all 1-4x scopes I've looked at, there's some edge distortion that is distracting when you move from target to target. . .just have to learn to ignore it.  I will say that the distortion is more significant on the Millett than the Trijicon and the other higher end 1-4's.

[Lloyd Smale]

if you need a bit of precision with a 4moa aimpoint try turning it down so you can barely see the dot. I would like to see aimpoint go with a triange shaped dot like the trijicons have. that way a guy can use whole triangle to aim up close and just the point to aim out far. I think the problem would be powering a reticle that big. Im sure it would take away sustiantialy from the battery life.

The size of the dot needed to see during the day makes them a point and shoot sight, not something to take a cap off of a soda bottle at 200 yards like a scope does.
I had one on a little single shot 22 mag for night time coyote.  Worked great fro that but was a lousy squirrel rifle in the day time.
I can see the advantages of a red dot on a slug gun or on an AR as a back up fpr snap shots.

[jmayton]

Lloyd, I rarely run my illumination and even then, just keep it on 1.  10 is really bright and only good for full daylight.  I get pretty good battery life out of it, though.  I left it on for a few days one time with no issues.  I know some can't run a full day before the battery is dead.  I'll probably replace the Millett with the Trijicon Accupoint one day, but for me, that's still a lot to pay for a 1-4. . . but not nearly as much as the Leupold Mark-8!

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree there sure costly. The one i have is the most expensive scope i own. I wish i could afford a couple more as i couldnt think of a better scope for whitetail hunting up here where shots usually come close. Its fast reliable and has excellent glass that really picks up light well.

Lloyd, I rarely run my illumination and even then, just keep it on 1.  10 is really bright and only good for full daylight.  I get pretty good battery life out of it, though.  I left it on for a few days one time with no issues.  I know some can't run a full day before the battery is dead.  I'll probably replace the Millett with the Trijicon Accupoint one day, but for me, that's still a lot to pay for a 1-4. . . but not nearly as much as the Leupold Mark-8!

[SHOOTALL]

I settled on a 2-7 scope with a little ( about the size of a 50 cent pcs. ) dot mounted on a 1 oclock offset rail beside the scope . It seems a good set up time will tell. It keeps things more compact and maybe less prone to damage. I have a laser to mount but so far have not .