alright finally got em and tried em'. I see a very nice 1.010" @50yrds group which would have been like .25" if i hadn't had a off-center hold. This was done laying atop a pile of fire wood so i didn't have a comfy/stable rest, just prone on some wood.
this was
Sierra 110gr Varminter, 48gr of Varget by Hodgdon, CCI200 primers and Winchester cases. .308 Winchester caliber.