What does it take to keep the front 1911 sight peened on?

[Land_Owner]

I paid a "competent" gunsmith to peen on a new front sight on my Thompson/Auto Ordnance 1911.  Apparently he didn't get it done.  It is gone again.  Probably popped off during holstering, then through the holster and on the ground not to be seen again.  At the house just prior to cleaning my reaction was, "WTH?  Gone!  Come On Man!   Bad 'gunsmith'.  No donuts!"

I won't take it back to the "gunsmith" as he failed and it has been 3 to 5 years since the work was done.  That 1911 was practically unused in the years since the work, carrying and exercising my revolvers almost exclusively in that time.

I have looked into the purchase of the offset peening device as sold by Brownell's, but the initial cost is too high to do this one time. 

[Frank46]

I just looked at my 1911, front sight centered in dovetail and pinned in place. The rear is adjustable for windage and elevation. The pin goes through the sight blade and into the slide. I have over 5000 rounds through it and hasn't moved yet. Cannot see what type of pin but's its either a solid one or a roll pin. Hope this helps. Frank

[Land_Owner]

The front sight I have is neither dove tailed nor pinned.  On the bottom of the sight is a rectangular blade that fits parallel with and into a receiver "hole" through the frame.  Then a specialty "tool" is used to peen the rear of the blade, which is exposed on the inside of the frame, wider than the bottom of the recess.

[zoner]

I think the tool you need is called a staking tool

[spruce]

LO - yours pistol's style of front sight fastening is referred to as a "staked on" type.  It's the way John Browning designed it and if done properly will stay in place forever.

Be aware there are two sizes of tenons (the projection on the bottom of the sight blade).  There is a narrow and a wide version.  Most (all?) of the older models use the narrow version and a lot of the newer manufacture pistols use the wide version.

I'd say either the "gunsmith" used the narrow when he should have used the wide, or he just did a sloppy job of staking it.

[Land_Owner]

The "staking" tool is considerably more expensive than the front site blade.  I don't want to purchase the tool, but I have to purchase the blade...again.  I think I need a competent gunsmith this time.

[Dirt Bag]

L.O.
       Maybe you could take it back to the guy and show him what happened, and I'll bet he'll try to make it right, even after those 3 to 5 years. Don't think anyone actually tries to make mistakes or do sloppy work.  If he is going about something wrong, he's probably the first one who would want to know about it.
                                                                                                         Best
                                                                                                            D.B.

[gunnut69]

Peening a 1911 sight while not a seemingly difficult job has it's challenges. I would talk with the smith that did the job and tell him what you've told us. I've had 1911 sights come off but usually after quite a bit of shooting. Most common mistake is to not have sufficient clearance for the metal moved by the peening.. Also I use a punch I modified myself as when I started money wasn't short,,,it was non-existant!! I still use the homemade punch and haven't had a blade come off in years.. I do prefer the dovetail sights and regularly convert the staked on guns to take a dovetailed front.. The guy who did it first is likely your best bet..and deserves the chance.

[Rickk]

Did the post portion of the sight come out of the hole in the slide or did the post break?

The post coming out of the slide might conceivably be blamed on poor installation but if the post broke it may be due to excessive slide battering.

I have a Gold Cup that used to sheer the rear sight roll pins every 50-100 rounds when shooting ball ammo instead of target wad cutters like it was set up to do by Colt. Besides putting in a stiffer recoil spring I put in a spring guide that contains a buffer, and also installed one of those rubber slide bumper pads as well. That was many thousand hot rounds ago and I have not replaced a rear sight roll pin sense.

[jcn59]

I am trying to make a staking tool.  I'm not really sure what it should look like.  Should I grind the staking part to stake parallel to the slide or does the sight get staked at right angle to the slide?  Can anyone give me an idea specifically to grind the punch?

This is what I have so far ~~O-1 tool steel, .375 thick X 2" wide stock.

[Dee]

Here's the key to mounting a front sight that will stay put. I usually charge for this when I put them on, but here's the secret. With the sight removed, I take a dremel tool and a small tool and crater the hole slightly around the slot in the slide on the inside. Then I fit the front sight a little tight, and press the sight in with a vise. Once the vice is holding the slide I put a small drop of liquid steel in the crater around the post and then peen the post down till it fills the crater completely. Once this is done, a small swiss file to file the remainder flush. The sight will never shoot loose again. Guaranteed.

[gunnut69]

The hardest part is the holding fixture for the sight blade. I has to hold the blade firmly (very!) and yet not mar it to any great extent. I use a block of hot rolled steel and saw a slot in the end (1/2 x 1/2 inch bar) to fit the blade. A hole drilled at the end of the slot (drill it first of course) will increase useability. The blade is fit in the holder and is placed in the vise. When closed the vise grabs the sides of the blade tightly. The slide is then set down over the shank and proped up with a wood block of the correct height. It is held in place with a simple spring clamp. The inside of the tenon must have a recess for the metal from the peening of the shank. I use a chisel shaped punch to start peening. I finish with a blunt rounded conical shape not much different in shape than a 45 acp ball which is of course steel. Neither of these punches is heavy and use them with light strikes from a medium to small hammer. Control is a lot more important than power. The commercial punches I have seen are a broad 'v' shaped chisel.. I did not like the looks or the price.. The fit of the tenon in the slide is the most important part of the entire process.. Done right they are very durable..

[nicholst55]

Dee and Gunnut69 have it right!  This is one 'simple' job that isn't.  When done right, the original factory-size front sight will stay in place for a lifetime.  When done wrong, they WILL come off.  Many of the tools sold for this job are less than ideal for the purpose, too.

I normally use a dovetail front sight now on my guns.  It gives you a lot more versatility, and as long as the dovetail is properly cut, they're essentially a permanent installation.

[jcn59]

I was able to install the front sight thanks to all your help.  I put the slide in a padded vise with the sight held between the ways of the vise and the top of the slide.  That worked okay.  I ground a wedge on my punch that did a mediocre job of peening the narrow tenon & supplemented it with a small pointed punch.   Eventually with lots of gentle tapping the sight tightened up in the slide.  I finished it up with a dab of JB weld over the tenon.

I haven't shot it yet.  Hope it doesn't launch into space.

I think I'm going to reconfigure the punch by setting it up so that when it is inserted into the slide, it will bottom out on the shoulder the correct distance to the tenon so I don't have to guess.  Then I'm going to drill it for a removable punch so I can use different shaped punches, held in by a set screw.  Then I'm going to make a fixture to hold the front sight.