Author Topic: is this normal now? (Read 1970 times)

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2011, 08:01:29 PM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on May 28, 2011, 01:53:08 PM

What's in the bag next to the backpack. Mushrooms. MUSHROOMS, are they illegal mushrooms? No they are morels. What are morels? There mushrooms. Are you sure their legal? Yes. How do you know? You know some mushrooms are illegal don't you. Yes, I only pick morels because they are the only ones I know are safe. You are sure they are legal. Yes. Your sure. Yes.

Then after another long interrogation about weapons he let me go.

This is one of those cases where, it might be best just to look at them, ask if you're under arrest, and if not, get in the car and leave. And if they ask you to get out of the car, lock it when you do and put the keys in your pocket.

Do not cooperate with them - they're not your friends. They are NOT, esp. if they start that asking questions business. Shuttup, resist the urge to tell the truth - they're not interested in that, they're interested in potential evidence. Never, never forget that.

Check out this two part piece - esp. part where the cop lectures about how they can lie, and you cannot - the first link is very good, by the law prof. But the second link - I'm going to imbed it - here the officer explains all the ways they can hose you over. He comes right out and says it - YOU ARE A FOOL FOR TALKING TO THEM. Watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

magooch · « **Reply #31 on:** May 29, 2011, 04:15:31 AM »

If it's all the same to you guys, I'll take my chances with being pleasant and cooperative with the cops--up to a point. Don't ask me where that point is, because I don't know. What I do know is that absolutely nothing good is bound to come from asking for trouble.

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #32 on:** May 29, 2011, 05:11:31 AM »

Thank you for the positive input gomerdog. Nice to hear about the good portion of the l.e.o. community. Hope all continues to go well with you and also hope that the rest of us have all of our bad experiences behind us.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #33 on:** May 29, 2011, 01:22:56 PM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on May 28, 2011, 01:53:08 PM

Yes, it's normal! I got the same treatment when I was stopped for going too slow. ( 55 in a 65) I was driving home from a turkey hunting trip and was guilty of the crime of wearing camouflage. He took my license, insurance and registration. 15 minutes later he tells me to get out of the car. He makes me stand behind my car and ask a bunch of questions about stuff in my car. His partner is standing at 10 o clock with her hand on her gun the whole time.

What's in that 5 gal bottle on the back seat? Spring water. Are you sure it's nothing illegal? Yes, I filled it at the spring myself. Are you sure it's nothing illegal? Yes it's water.

What is that thing next to it? It says REMINGTON on it! My backpack. What is in it? Hunting stuff, I was hunting. Do you have any weapons? Yes, I was hunting. What were you hunting for? Turkeys. Is turkey season open? Yes. Are you sure? Yes, turkey season is open. Where are you weapons? My shotgun is in my the trunk. Do you have any weapons on you now? No the shotgun is in the trunk. Are you sure? Yes. Yes what? Yes your sure or yes you have weapons on you? Yes I'm sure the shotgun is in the trunk.

What's in the bag next to the backpack. Mushrooms. MUSHROOMS, are they illegal mushrooms? No they are morels. What are morels? There mushrooms. Are you sure their legal? Yes. How do you know? You know some mushrooms are illegal don't you. Yes, I only pick morels because they are the only ones I know are safe. You are sure they are legal. Yes. Your sure. Yes.

Then after another long interrogation about weapons he let me go.

I am sure he told me to get out of the car for interigation because he saw me wearing camouflage and saw a camouflage backpack that said REMINGTON on it. From now on I change cloths before driving home from hunting trips. Any evedidence of hunting will be locked out of sight in the trunk. It also means I will not be buying the jeep or truck I wanted to get for hunting.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #34 on:** May 31, 2011, 08:27:26 AM »

Defend your rights.
Offer no information.
Answer questions as short as possible.
Be truthfull and courteous/respectfull.
Do not tolerate rudness or unprofessionalism. Report it.
Do not allow unwarrented search.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #35 on:** May 31, 2011, 10:32:41 AM »

I know this is hard for you guys to believe, even though I am a retired LEO, I know your pain. I've had run ins with the type of cops, that you describe, both before I became a LEO, and while I was a LEO. Usually, if you ask around, even their fellow officers will tell you that particular guy is an "@" aka "A - circle".
So he would have been a "@", whether he was a cop or not. But, you have to realize, that the guys you are describing are the exception not the norm. Most of us are decent individuals, and usually we are the ones that give a lot of our time to the community (scout leaders, LL, Pop Warner coaches, etc.). What I'm trying to tell you guys is hate the individual "@", not the guys that happen to be wearing the uniform.
If you feel strongly about the issue, stand your ground, politely, but firmly.
If you have a problem with a particular individual behaving in what you feel is an unprofessional manner, try to remember/document what he did, then write a letter nice letter to the Chief of Police explaining the situation/acts. Most large urban police departments, have a civilian complaint board. You might not get the situation resolved to your satisfaction but, if that particular officer gets enough complaints, eventually the municipality will have to do something, because it will cost them lots of money to resolve lawsuits involving that particular officer.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #36 on:** May 31, 2011, 12:00:19 PM »

Quote from: OldSchoolRanger on May 31, 2011, 10:32:41 AM

I know this is hard for you guys to believe, even though I am a retired LEO, I know your pain....

+1 !

To know what your rights are in this type of situation you must know what the law is in your respective jurisdiction. But even then keep in mind this axiom: "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 31, 2011, 12:25:03 PM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on May 31, 2011, 12:00:19 PM

"You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

I'm going to guess the translation of that is... Officer (not) Friendly can cuff you and stuff you and humiliate and inconvenience you (off to jail) with near impunity; that you won't be convict (after being inconvenienced, jailed, maybe out cash for lawyer) is supposed to be cold comfort?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #38 on:** May 31, 2011, 12:30:54 PM »

Quote from: Mohawk on May 27, 2011, 03:51:09 PM

Some folks will never understand law enforcement until the officer is at their door to deliver bad news.

If they wish to enforce law then enforce all law . Dopn't pick the easy law . Stop the rapes at the mall, the big drug dealers etc.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #39 on:** May 31, 2011, 01:12:54 PM »

OldSchoolRanger, Absolutely. I guess its human nature not to remember the positive "encounters". The LEO's I know, don't get looked at as cops, but guys who work as police officers for a living. I guess there's a difference. We'll always remember those who are less than courteous or short with us. Always remember the incidents that just don't seem right, but then when those do come about, we'll wonder why don't the "good" LEO's publicly speak out against them? Some give and take everywhere.

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #40 on:** May 31, 2011, 02:50:58 PM »

You need to be Libertarians! Join TODAY! If you are a vet or leo also join the Oathkeepers. God Bless America.

P.A.

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #41 on:** June 01, 2011, 05:22:15 AM »

Excellent "translation" yellowtail. Nail on the head, and all that.

ironglow · « **Reply #42 on:** June 01, 2011, 06:49:39 AM »

I have not had trouble at any stop, but normally I don't give the law enforcement a ration of crap either. Yup there are some jerks but by and large , I believe LEOs are human as the rest of us. I have seen both magnanamous as well a petty actions by LEOs.
I guess I would as soon allow them to search my truck as not..but of course, this may be allowing the "planting' of evidence also.

I like "the rest of the story" also, so I went to the Youtube.com videos where you got your clip from and viewed the #1 part of the program. Part #1 was much more convincing than the part you presented. I wondered why you didn't highlight #1, where the professor at Regent U. was instructing on the subject and agreed with part #2...it convinced me. I'm sending that video to people I know and love..and who are very unlikely to be commiting arrestable crimes....simply because it is obvious that the innocent can be mistreated. Here's the good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
The painful thing is that even an innocent person cannot likely deal with such things without a lawyer...and lawyers can be very expensive. Justice for the innocent should not be costly, in fact it should be free. It would only seem fair that once an accused is proven innocent, their lawyer fees should be paid by the arresting agency.
One should not assume by this information, that they should be smart-alecky with a officer doing his/her job. Be polite, and refuse on constitutional grounds.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 01, 2011, 07:32:06 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on June 01, 2011, 06:49:39 AM

Part #1 was much more convincing than the part you presented. I wondered why you didn't highlight #1, where the professor at Regent U. was instructing on the subject and agreed with part #2...it convinced me.

Well, I didn't want to over-post... compelling, isn't it? The main point is... they're not your friends, once they start questioning you. THEY ARE NOT. It ain't about justice, folks... it's about winning. Be careful out there, and have a listen:

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #44 on:** June 01, 2011, 07:52:20 AM »

Togather they show the reason to shut up. I have been told this in every self defense class I have taken,
all suggest saying at the start "with all respect I will not ansewer questions until I have a lawyer repsenting me and present". If you sit in a room or jail so be it.

dukkillr · « **Reply #45 on:** June 01, 2011, 08:01:47 AM »

For those that want to be truly informed on this topic, a great read is, "The Innocent Man" by John Grisham. It's a non-fiction story about a guy in Oklahoma who the police generally don't like. It is eye opening to see the lengths they go to make the evidence fit the guy they want...

Of course you could also take a look at Kansas City's own story of Ted White who was falsly accuse of child molestation because the detective was having an affair with Mr. White's wife.

http://lstribune.net/lees-summit-news/lee-s-summit-may-face-crime-fraud-trial-in-ted-white-case.htmhttp://lstribune.net/lees-summit-news/lee-s-summit-may-face-crime-fraud-trial-in-ted-white-case.htm

I've had some very nice encounters, and some ridiculous. I've never been anything but polite and professional, as I am with anyone of any profession. But I see no reason to not take every precaution to protect myself and my rights. I have no idea what agenda could be going on...

ironglow · « **Reply #46 on:** June 01, 2011, 10:31:48 AM »

Dukkillr; Atlaw;
I have had little to no serious dealings with such things. It would seem that if an innocent man were simply "accused" of any such crime, legal fees could run to thousands. Obviously, if someone had a really serious grudge, they could slap a fellow several times in a year or two.
Is there any recourse for an innocent man to get these legal fees back from the state or arresting agencies ?

Yellow;
You have me convinced..even though I don't plan to be committing any crimes..now I got more to worry about..dang it !

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #47 on:** June 02, 2011, 10:36:55 AM »

I had the pleasure of hearing a speech on a clean shooting . The estimated cost was $40000.00 in legal fees for criminal and civil trial. This is if you were found innocent in criminal court first.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #48 on:** June 02, 2011, 10:37:53 AM »

That is why if I shoot it is because of pure fear . I can stand some pushing around if I am not in fear of my life.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #49 on:** June 08, 2011, 06:58:59 PM »

Quote from: yellowtail3 on May 28, 2011, 08:01:29 PM

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on May 28, 2011, 01:53:08 PM

What's in the bag next to the backpack. Mushrooms. MUSHROOMS, are they illegal mushrooms? No they are morels. What are morels? There mushrooms. Are you sure their legal? Yes. How do you know? You know some mushrooms are illegal don't you. Yes, I only pick morels because they are the only ones I know are safe. You are sure they are legal. Yes. Your sure. Yes.

Then after another long interrogation about weapons he let me go.

This is one of those cases where, it might be best just to look at them, ask if you're under arrest, and if not, get in the car and leave. And if they ask you to get out of the car, lock it when you do and put the keys in your pocket.

Do not cooperate with them - they're not your friends. They are NOT, esp. if they start that asking questions business. Shuttup, resist the urge to tell the truth - they're not interested in that, they're interested in potential evidence. Never, never forget that.

Check out this two part piece - esp. part where the cop lectures about how they can lie, and you cannot - the first link is very good, by the law prof. But the second link - I'm going to imbed it - here the officer explains all the ways they can hose you over. He comes right out and says it - YOU ARE A FOOL FOR TALKING TO THEM. Watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

After a little research I have to say thank you yellowtail3. You are right.