Author Topic: Not Real Happy With the Hornady Dies (Read 711 times)

woodseye · « **on:** December 28, 2003, 06:47:48 AM »

I've been fighting with the hornady new dimension dies and was wondering what everyone thinks of them. The expander and shaft keep slipping unless you tighten it to superhuman levels and seems to cock the necks as I'm getting an average of 8-11 thousandths runout on loaded ammo. After a while I bought a set of Forester Benchrest dies for a little more ($45 instead of $25) ........WHAT a difference! The expander slides thru with little strain and concentricity averages dropped to 2-4 thousandths. Bullet seater also has a lock ring on the forester while it relies on some rubber gasket tension on the hornadys. I think it will be forester whenever possible for me from now on, all dies are not created equal.

woods

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2003, 07:29:49 AM »

I believe your problem with the Hornady dies is failure to fully follow instructions. I felt the same as you at first but then learned to use them and now while I still prefer the more conventional thread rod I can live with them fine.

When you first get them take the die apart. Totally and completely degrease all parts of it especially the collet and rod. Then put it back together dry and tighten. You shouldn't have the problem again. At least I've not since doing it this way. If you're getting the run out you mention you might want to have it down in a case when you do the final tightening. That is a generally accepted way to properly align the die and should always be done really.

The main reason the Forster seems so smooth is the way they are made. They place the button differently in the die than all others so you are at the highest torque part of the power stroke when the button makes contact. This is one of their biggest selling points. They claim it makes the ammo more accurate but I've not been able to substanitate this claim so far.

GB

woodseye · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2003, 07:57:07 AM »

No Bill, I followed directions to the letter and had severe problems with the expander pulling down in the die and scoring itself terribily up and down the shaft when it would stick. Did it the worse with federal brass and required a dry lube to work without sticking at all. We took apart several times and degreased with thinner and dryed before reassembling and it did no good. Maybe the fit was just not tight enough or the plating on the shaft too hard for it to grip.

I bought a concentricity guage to see if it was tilting the necks of my brass in the resizing step and indeed it was and that was effecting my loaded concentricity big time.We tried moving the expander up and down in the die to stop the neck moving but to no avail. You can tweak a load 8-12 out back to 1 or 2 but it requires a pretty stiff tweaking tool and usually wrecks keeping the neck tension uniform. The Forester dies do use the leverage to its advantage when resizing the neck but it also doesn't stress the neck and move it out of concentricity like both the hornady die sets do.

I don't feel the run-out effects the accuracy the way some do but anything over about 6 thousandths will indeed open groups up and I speak from experience on that, heck even good factory loads won't exceed 6 thousandths usually. I just find the forester dies easier to work and they leave the brass much straighter and make a lot less work tweaking the loads to under 2 thousandths run-out as about half come out of the dies at that and the other ones require a little tweak and there right there. No more hornady dies for me........not worth the extra work and they are a poor design to begin with.

woods

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:37:57 PM »

I bought their dies for a 223, could not get the decapping/size die to lock in place (after through cleaning) had similar problems with the seating die. I called c/s and talked to a tech, he told me to take some emory paper to the shaft!!! While this might help I didn't buy new equipment to have to fix a design problem. If I had been talking to RCBS they would have offered to replace it pronto (including return frt.) I bought a RCBS from my local gun shop who no longer stocks Hornady loading products.
Great bullets
Jim

Lone Star · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:49:56 PM »

I've had excellent results with my Hornady ND dies. I do take the rod out, degrease it and the collet, then reassemble with some Neverseize on the threads. This increases the clamping force considerably for the same make-up torque, and I've not had the slipping issue on three different sets of dies.

But realize that you get what you pay for. Comparing a $25 die set with a $45 set is pretty silly - like comparing an NEF rifle with a T/C. The quality of the latter is far better, although they both function okay. Forester dies are top notch, but I prefer Redding now. Comparable-to-better finish, very accurate ammo and great customer service.

Yes, RCBS has a great return policy, but that's a double-edged sword. I've had to use their return service many many times over the years, yet I've returned only one Redding item, one Lyman and one Lee. I'm about through with RCBS products.....call me a slow learner. :wink:

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2003, 05:27:07 PM »

Hornady has an excellent customer service staff. Call and speak with Bob and tell him just like you told us. He will make it right for you I'm certain. They definitely shouldn't be doing that.

GB

woodseye · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2003, 12:24:26 AM »

Sorry to have made a silly comparison there Lone Star, should have went and bought RCBS I guess and they would have fixed my problem and been comparable in price. I just went for a quality upgrade at the same time, oh well things are good in reloading land for me now and I hope any newbees will read this and not make the same mistake I did.

Thanks for the info Bill, I think I'll just use the two resizers out of the two sets I have for partial resizing with fireformed cases less the expanders and stick with the forester dies from here on in my reloading. I'm very happy with them and don't think thats too much extra to spend considering the difference in load quality they produce.

Thanks for the info guys.

woods

Lone Star · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2003, 06:07:10 AM »

Quote

Sorry to have made a silly comparison there Lone Star....

That's okay Woods, just make sure it doesn't happen again..... :wink: :wink: :roll: :oops:

woodseye · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2003, 10:56:45 AM »

:grin: Ok I'll be careful :grin:

woods

coyotero · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:14:16 PM »

Woodseye-My 1 set of Hornady dies are in the landfill.I pitched them.The most accurate reloads I have ever made were with Bonanza(Forester) dies and Redding.I'm going to try Lee neck sizer dies in the near future.

woodseye · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:16:18 PM »

Whoa.........thats radical....although I did want to do that at one point. My gunsmith came by to show me what I was doing wrong and got the die promptly stuck in a case and we had to really thrash to get the case off and the die back together. It wasn't so much the spindle pulling thru or getting stuck in a case and causing trouble as the necks being off enough to make a case that was around 2 thousandths run-out before sizing to be 8-12 after pulling that expander ball thru it. The Forester dies don't distort necks at all and make life a lot easier when it comes time to tweak the loads and make them concentric. I'd say it takes 1/4 of the time now to tweak and it doesn't ruin neck tension either. I saved mine to use as neck sizers and thats about it.

woods

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2003, 06:06:58 AM »

I took GB's advice and called c/s for Bob. 1-800-338-3220 (answering service is clever and funny) Bob told me to send it in and they would issue a credit for other stuff as I didnt want a replacement. May not be a total loss after all.
Jim

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2003, 06:42:19 AM »

So Jim did you jump up and down on one foot? :-D :-D Ya gotta love that Hornady answering deal. Only one I actually can say that about. Makes me laugh each time I call.

GB

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2003, 03:47:46 PM »

GB
I have been in the retail bus most of my life. And when I encounter this type of marketing from western NE I have to give it two thumbs up. This not to say they are hokie, but they seem to be more inventive (which is not my choice of words but its Whiskey Night and I and the Queen) are laying low. Hornady has a great C/S dept.
Happy New Year To all
Jim
PS You should get a spell check or a wobbley check