Author Topic: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?  (Read 2583 times)

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Offline lonewolf5348

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380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« on: July 12, 2011, 11:32:34 AM »
I wonder if a FMJ bullet in 380 has enough stopping power?
I read some were the HP bullets in 380 seem to lack FPS to fully mushroom

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 11:54:29 AM »
I have a book from the 80's By G&A that shows the Silver tips in 380 and says to use a mix of FMJ and Hollow points to get a combination of penitration and expansion.
I have a couple older pocket pistols that are Pre 1980's and the introduction of semi Automatic hollow points.  Some work with them others do not and need to use only FMJ in them or they are a single shot.  Even changing mags to new ones does not fix it.
380 was a military and Police CTG in Europe for years and has worked well for them.  The Soviet army uses pretty much 380 with the Makarov pistol and the 9X18mm.  380 is 9X17mm.  9mm Nato/ Luger is 9X19mm.
I kept the Remington 102 grain Golden Saber bullets in my Sig P230 when I carried it.  They functioned well in the guin and they did bad things to full size water mellons.  A trip to a road side stand and out to the farm to test ammo made me happy with them.

Offline LocnLod

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 03:33:59 PM »
I wonder if a FMJ bullet in 380 has enough stopping power?

It might.  It might not.  With handgun rounds stopping power has more to do with the mindset of the person you shoot than what you shoot them with.  As long as the bullet has enough power go do deep enough to hit a vital organ, spine or brain, apply and repeat as necessary.

Offline shot1

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 03:13:53 AM »
There is no such thing as stopping power as in this bullet has enough energy to stop by force anything. It is all about bullet placement to a vital organ. If you want to stop a person right now it takes a hit to the central nervous system. Even a shot to the heart will not stop a person immediately much of the time. Most of the modern day HP ammo will expand. Hornady self defense or XTP, Speer Gold Dot, Corbon JHP are some very good ones. I would worry about over penetration with fmj RN bullets. The Winchester flat nose FMJ would be a better choice.

Offline leadbutt

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 02:12:32 PM »
FMJ or FNJ doesn't make a difference wounds the same, in 380 like the others posted it like other rounds is  crap shoot, pick some of the better JHP from quality producers and test them in your weapon to see how them work then go with whats good.
 
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Offline Old Griz

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2011, 01:48:02 PM »
Some penetration tests with .380 HPs have been underwhelming. After seeing the Box O' Truth test on mouse guns, I don't usually carry anything that small, but when I do I use FMJ in the .380s and my 9X18 Makarov. I want it to penetrate deep enough to reach a vital organ.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm
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Offline gr8ful

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2011, 02:04:11 PM »
reguardless of ammo type a full clip of .380 acp at real personal defense ranges(0-15 yrds) WILL result in the bad guy seeking IMMEDIATE medical attention if he doesn't bleed out behind a dumpster first. Either way he ain't messing with you any more.  Find something your gun fires and feeds well, practice until you are competent to draw, aim and keep all of your shots center mass and don't ever worry again about terminal performance.  BTW  Federal Hyda-shoks shoot to POA and feed well in my keltecs in .380 and .32.

Offline Bugflipper

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2011, 02:16:04 PM »
I used to carry a ppk as a backup in 380 and used fmj. I read through countless pages of fbi data to come to that conclusion. Old Griz just posted a 3 minute read that would have saved me a whole lot of time if it was available back then.  :)

I use a glock 27 in 40 for backup now. It will work with my duty 23 mags and is well worth the added size to have more power than the 380. Every pistol I have is loaded with hp besides the 380 and 38 spl. Those two are never carried anymore. In fact it's time for them to find new homes. The wife has been wanting a glock 27 here lately so a 2 for 1 is probably in my future.
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Offline powderman

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2011, 05:53:48 PM »
I mostly carry my 38 sdpcl but when I do carry my 380 it is fmj flat points. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2011, 01:24:02 PM »
FMJ in a .380 is very nearly nothing.  It will have no visible affect on a human, unless you shoot his brain or spine.  Lots of cases where a .380 did not penetrate the skull.  Most recent case I know of, is an irate husband who shot his wife in the head with a .380 (bullet design unknown), then went out side and shot himself in the side of the head and died.  When police arrived, the woman was making tea and seem disoriented.  A .380 is as close to nothing as you can get in a centerfire weapon.   
 
That said, I carry an LCP most everywhere, but it's in addition to something bigger.  The load I carry is the hardcast 100 grain from Buffalo Bore.  It's got a flat point and will do a little more damage than a fmj.  'Tis my opinion that a fmj in any handgun caliber is useless. 

Offline Old Griz

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2011, 05:46:18 PM »
It's not my first choice (except in mouse guns), but since WWI there sure have been a lot of folks killed by FMJ bullets.
Griz
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Offline Mikey

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2011, 02:45:20 AM »
I've never had a problem with the 380 failing to do what it is supposed to do.  I've played with and tested the hp and sp bullets and found expansion so lacking and the attendant impact to be less than 'knock'm out', so I simply use fmj bullets and train to shoot 3 shot groups.
 
I find it interesting that so many folks seem to put just about every caliber into a comparison with the 45 or the 44 spl and then lament the 'lack of power' the smaller calibers exhibit while literally demanding a 'one-shot-stop' from whatever they carry.  I often find it is these same people who purchase a 380 ('cause it looks like a 'mini-45' round), buy one or two boxes of ammo - usually one of plain jane ball and the other of the latest 'bow'm to bits load' and still have half a box of each two years later.  I don't understand it.
 
The last 380 I purchased was a Beretta M70 (I couldn't find a M34/35).  I like the Walther PP/PPk series but prefer a single action first shot and carry the Beretta cocked and locked.  I reload for the 380 and have run close to 2,000 rounds down the tube of that M70 and feel confident knowing how it will perform and where it hits and do not have a problem dropping it into my pocket or belt.  I have handled both the Kel-tec and the LCP and care for neither - too small and the recoil is too severe for me to keep the rounds where I want them to go.
 
And that is the ticket with a 380 - you have to develop a technique for using a small caliber semi-auto and you have to place your bullets right; do not expect bullets to do what the manufacturers of the ammo say it will do - just expect it to make a small 9mm hole going in and maybe not even one going out but understand that if you put 3 rounds right on top of each other you assailant will go down right there.  I have never seen anyone survive 3 rounds straight to the middle of the chest.  You just cannot expect a small caliber round to hit like a larger caliber round, it does not work that way.  If you are going to carry a 380 you have to practice placing those small slugs where they need to go and you have to keep practicing.  jmtcw. 

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2011, 12:59:45 PM »
Mikey, you may be right.  I've never shot anything living with a .380.  Never tested it on anything but water jugs.  I had a Sig 232 that I got rid of because of the size.  There are so many .380's a lot smaller.  But small ain't always good when it comes to carry guns.  I qualified easily with the Sig, and could hit center at 25 yards no problem.  With the LCP, it's easy to tote, but sights are almost non-existent, and hitting beyond a few feet is a matter of luck.  Since seeing your post, I'm tempted to trade that LCP toward another Sig. 

Offline Mikey

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2011, 03:00:23 AM »
Mike:  My attorney carries a LCP in his pocket and loves it but practices at 5 - 10' and feels confident with it although he has to wear a large band-aid to protect the web of his hand when he practices; otherwise, he bleeds....
 
The Sig is a solid piece.  Years ago, when we couldn't find the Walther PP/PPK series pistols or if the Berettas were tough to come by, the Sig Sauer in 380 was a most excelent choice.  I always felt the da trigger pull on the Sig was better than on the Walther.  I wish Beretta or Uberti would go retro and bring back the M34/35; it is just so classic..

Offline Ladobe

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 03:15:32 PM »
Bullets have changed, times have changed and so opinions also have had to change.   I probably wouldn't carry a 380 now days.  But back in the mid 70's I sometimes carried one of my two Rampant Colt Pony 380's (very early Colt/Star/FI prototypes), but with 7 mousy rounds I wanted penetration more than expansion.   Was a gunsmith at the time, so turned my own bullets out of solid copper alloy.   An instant man stopper on a doped up hippie they may not have been, but they would penetrate very well, and the pistols grouped them very well.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 05:23:56 PM »
I was taught 2 torso, 1 head.  If that don't stop them, drop the clip and throw the gun and run.....
 
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Offline LouisianaMan2

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2011, 11:31:48 AM »
Although I've been pretty scarce on the forums of late, I always enjoy Mikey's take on topics such as this one, and for the same reasons I value Fairbairn-Sykes-Applegate. Methinks they have "been there and done that," whereas my personal experience is limited to shooting some deer, some milk jugs, as well as reading a lot and thinking about what I read. Luckily, I believe that we can actually learn a lot that way--I don't need to personally touch a glowing hot stove burner to believe that would really, really hurt!
 
I love to read about all the options, inches of penetration, and newfangled means of trying to solve a problem that we've faced for hundreds of years: how to use a handgun to get a BG to cease and desist, preferably sooner (-est) rather than later. Nonetheless, I must admit that I think LocnLod is dead right when he states: "With handgun rounds stopping power has more to do with the mindset of the person you shoot than what you shoot them with.  As long as the bullet has enough power go do deep enough to hit a vital organ, spine or brain, apply and repeat as necessary."
 
Sykes said very much the same thing in Shooting to Live with the One-Hand Gun back in 1942, and while expressing a preference for big bullets that moved as fast as possible, he emphasized that his extensive experience in Shanghai had convinced him that no caliber was magic. Granted, his police/military choices were limited to non-expanding bullets and he would have preferred expanding ones, but he simply saw too many cases where small bullets worked, big ones didn't, and vice versa. Accordingly, he limited his recommendations to advising his readers to select a serious caliber--which he essentially defined as .32, .38, .44, .45 or approximately those sizes--and learn to shoot it with all the speed and aggressiveness of which the shooter was capable. Although he obviously understood that shot placement was important, his experience convinced him it was most important to shoot first, hit as soon as possible, and fire in bursts of 2, 3 or more shots. He found that 50% hits anywhere on the target generally proved "adequate to the purpose in view," when delivered first and aggressively.
 
I usually carry a .38 SPL or .38 S&W revolver, but sometimes carry a classic Remington 51 in .380 caliber that I can point shoot very rapidly with one hand and score well-placed hits at ranges up to 25 feet. (Longer effective range in deliberate fire, but I don't think that's likely to be relevant to my specific purposes.) It's loaded with Hornady Critical Defense, although I've also carried it with Speer Gold Dot or simply flat-nosed Winchester ball ammo. I'd be very comfortable with Buffalo Bore flat nose lead, but can't afford to practice with it much and also hesitate to use it in a classic firearm. Once I start reloading and casting for this caliber later this year, I'll try to find a flat-nosed lead bullet of 100-120g that my Remington likes, shoot it a lot, and then carry that.
 
Given my situation, when I carry concealed I expect to face a prospective opponent up close, and I plan to do my darndest to shoot fast, first, and keep shooting, and I am betting that multiple rapid hits gives me pretty good odds of winning. Anything less reduces my chances.
 
At home I have a .45 ACP and a .44 SPL, because I view the tactical situation a bit differently. I still intend to try to shoot first, fast, and multiple times if I ever need to use it in a crisis.
 
 
 

Offline lonewolf5348

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Re: 380 cal. FMJ bullet?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 11:13:12 AM »
I shot the 380 ppks yesterday and found Winchester seem to have a little more punch Flat Point FMJ :Federal 95 gr. FMJ again shoots excellent no problems ,I did have one stove pipe round using PMC FMJ in the PPKS .I set up the target at 12 yards combat style shooting two hand hold seem to stay in a 3" group no matter what I put threw the gun