Author Topic: Only Factory Ammo for Self Defense????? (Read 5871 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #60 on:** June 17, 2011, 03:40:36 AM »

No its exactly what happens WRONG CONCLUSIONS ARE DRAWN AND YOU HAVE NO DEFENSE. The bullets you load mat infact equal a defense load used by police but if it looks different you could be convicted. Its the fact that you used a DIFFERENT load.

Savage · « **Reply #61 on:** June 17, 2011, 05:10:09 AM »

I have no interest in changing anyone's mind on this subject. I think we all should make up our on minds here. I've been fortunate to live long enough to learn how little I really know. One thing I have learned well, is that the improvable happens with uncanny regularity. I have also learned to minimize risks where I can. Therefore I use factory ammo in all my defensive firearms. Those who choose to carry reloads or specialty ammo, have my blessing.
Savage

streak · « **Reply #62 on:** June 17, 2011, 08:01:28 AM »

Let`s throw another wrench into the mix!
O.K. you have a .454 Casull as a ccw and you have to use it with " factory loads" to protect yourself and you blow a big hole in somebody and kill them. And you go to trial, although this is a clear case of self defense, and the prosecutor starts in on for using such a large caliber pistol. Saying that your only reason to carry such a big bore handgun was for the sole purpose to kill and maim someone! You can see where this line of thinking is heading as the victim is now becoming the target.
So essentially this scenario and the other scenario of using reloads or factory loads are seen in the same light.
Here is another one to chew on!!
Suppose you are out hunting or target shooting with "reloads" and some dopehead tries to do you harm and you shoot him in self defense! Now you are at trial and the prosecutor starts in about your type of bullet you were using! Now this one is complicated because you are not in a position at the time of the incidence to take out reloads and put in factory loads!
More than likely these trials would be of the civil kind.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #63 on:** June 17, 2011, 08:18:03 AM »

streak , both good points , unless you are in an area where bear or other big critter is a problem it would make sense to carry something more acceptable . Here at one time only 38 revolvers were allowed for CC.
As for range or hunting you would have a valid reason .

Spirithawk · « **Reply #64 on:** June 17, 2011, 04:52:33 PM »

I look at it like this. If I can be better armed than the bad guy then that's a big step in the right direction for self defense. If the bad guy doesn't worry about too large a caliber or too hot a load then why should I be forced to? When the goal is to protect yourself from serious injury or death doesn't it make sense to grasp any advantage you can get? That's not being overly agresive it's just common sense!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #65 on:** June 17, 2011, 08:27:12 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on June 17, 2011, 04:52:33 PM

I look at it like this. If I can be better armed than the bad guy then that's a big step in the right direction for self defense. If the bad guy doesn't worry about too large a caliber or too hot a load then why should I be forced to? When the goal is to protect yourself from serious injury or death doesn't it make sense to grasp any advantage you can get? That's not being overly agresive it's just common sense!

Again, not questioning the reasoning of what or why you carry. The question comes up after the fact and how to protect your self from the "victoms" family sueing you for wrongfull death. the Liberals and the monday morning quaterbacks second guessing your actions and having a political prosicuter going after you like the guy in the Duke laccrosse case that cost the players time, reputation, and their parents thousands of dollars in legal fees. if you think the after math and the ramifications are worth saving a buck a round for the 10 to 45 you carry, you are crazy and Mr, Murphy is going to screw with you every chance he gets if he gets you into a shooting situation.

Pulp · « **Reply #66 on:** July 09, 2011, 08:12:45 AM »

Fortunately, I live in Oklahoma, where we have a good strong castle law. I don't have to worry about handloads vs factory. That said I use factory in my 1911. But if it had handloads while I'm at my range, I wouldn't swap magazines before defending myself.

I've been known to have a loaded '51 Navy or '60 Army in my vehicle, while traveling to my shooting range. Since I make my own blackpowder and cast my own bullets, I wonder how I'd fare in a New Jersey court if I had to use one of them for self defense.

A similar discussion used to come up on the SASS Wire about using our cowboy guns for SD. A lawyer member advised not to, for the same reasons as handloads. Finally, he was challenged to come up with a single case where a person had a bad legal outcome due to using a single action "cowboy gun". He backed down when he couldn't find a case.

bilmac · « **Reply #67 on:** July 10, 2011, 05:41:50 PM »

If I had to defend using my cowboy guns in self defense I would just be a poor ol boy who plays out childhood games for fun. I wouldn't ever let on that even the world's worst cowboy shooter is probably a thousand times better with his guns than the average punk gang banger

lonewolf5348 · « **Reply #68 on:** July 12, 2011, 11:36:02 AM »

Funny thing the question was on a test I just completed a course
HR 218, The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act
and it did state DO NOT CARRY HANDLOADED AMMO FOR SELF DEFENCE

bubbinator · « **Reply #69 on:** July 12, 2011, 09:34:26 PM »

To CWLONGSHOT- re an earlier post on page 1- about HB wadcutters- back in the day I loaded a bunch of them and carried them in 2"/3" Smiths. Somewhere in my travels I got a red box with black print of 38 Special HBWCs with a post in the center! The original Hydra-shok Concept taken over by Federal! I still have 75% of the box, some were fired into wet newspaper and clay to test, they worked great! and at standard WC pressure too! I think some NYPD Detective/s were the force behind this per print on the box. Just FYI-Thanks

cwlongshot · « **Reply #70 on:** July 18, 2011, 06:41:09 AM »

Quote from: bubbinator on July 12, 2011, 09:34:26 PM

To CWLONGSHOT- re an earlier post on page 1- about HB wadcutters- back in the day I loaded a bunch of them and carried them in 2"/3" Smiths. Somewhere in my travels I got a red box with black print of 38 Special HBWCs with a post in the center! The original Hydra-shok Concept taken over by Federal! I still have 75% of the box, some were fired into wet newspaper and clay to test, they worked great! and at standard WC pressure too! I think some NYPD Detective/s were the force behind this per print on the box. Just FYI-Thanks

Yup! Ihave some too!! Yes Federal did buy the patent rights and load there version to this day. Excellent design.

CW

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #71 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:11:16 AM »

Quote from: bilmac on July 10, 2011, 05:41:50 PM

If I had to defend using my cowboy guns in self defense I would just be a poor ol boy who plays out childhood games for fun. I wouldn't ever let on that even the world's worst cowboy shooter is probably a thousand times better with his guns than the average punk gang banger

So you say. A political animal that wants to get ahead would label you a fanticy John Wesley Harding looking to use that smoke wagon on anyone that crossed him and is now looking for more "victoms" There is a joke that a NYC prosacuter could get a Ham sandwitch indited for attempted murder if they wanted on a man who choked in a restaraunt. Just be careful. That gang banger is going to be played up as the alter boy who was well on his way to get his eagle scout when you assaued him with your real life cap gun.
The idea you may want to get across is it is sports equipment and if you were a skeet shooter you would have used the skeet gun, if you were a soft ball player you would have used the bat to protect your self from your attacker.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #72 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:15:26 AM »

should the ball player use a fungo bat , alum bat or wood ?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #73 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:26:17 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on July 18, 2011, 10:15:26 AM

should the ball player use a fungo bat , alum bat or wood ?

Never having played baseball or softball, I played Lacrosse, I would have to say what ever one you happen to have.
But not a black or cammo one those are assault bats.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #74 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:43:24 AM »

22 men with sticks , you play dangerous

Spirithawk · « **Reply #75 on:** July 18, 2011, 12:32:25 PM »

Of course it is wise to concider the aftermath of having to use your fiream. That's just common sense, but it seems to me that many are so worried about what might happen in court that they tie their own hands and defeat themselves before ever facing any real threat. If you're really that dang worried then don't carry at all, don't go any where and lock yourself in a closet at home! I'd much rather be alive and dealing with legal problems than politicly correct but stone cold dead! If asked why I carry a particularly ammo in my firearm I'll answer like this, " 1) Because that's what it is chambered for. 2) That is what works reliably in that firearm. and most importantly 3) I shoot to kill because wounded assailents can, and do, still shoot back and I much prefer being a live survivor than a dead victom!" As to any assailants rights? They forfeit them the instant they choose to try and make me their victom!

streak · « **Reply #76 on:** July 18, 2011, 01:02:31 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on July 18, 2011, 12:32:25 PM

Of course it is wise to concider the aftermath of having to use your fiream. That's just common sense, but it seems to me that many are so worried about what might happen in court that they tie their own hands and defeat themselves before ever facing any real threat. If you're really that dang worried then don't carry at all, don't go any where and lock yourself in a closet at home! I'd much rather be alive and dealing with legal problems than politicly correct but stone cold dead! If asked why I carry a particularly ammo in my firearm I'll answer like this, " 1) Because that's what it is chambered for. 2) That is what works reliably in that firearm. and most importantly 3) I shoot to kill because wounded assailents can, and do, still shoot back and I much prefer being a live survivor than a dead victom!" As to any assailants rights? They forfeit them the instant they choose to try and make me their victom!

Well stated Spirithawk!!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #77 on:** July 18, 2011, 02:48:05 PM »

Sprit Hawk,
I am not saying that at all. Go where you want. Be smart about it (don't have a shopping bag full of cash and try to deposit it into an ATM on a Gang/ Drug corner at dark).
My point is for the cost of three 20 round boxes of ammo. Figure $60 to 120 dollars you can make sure the ammo works in your magazines and gun and enough ammo to fill the mag, Cylinder in the gun and a spare mag or speed loader or two.
The cost of the ammo is a whole lot cheaper than an hour of a lawyers time.
I picked a load that has the same loading as a practice round. For my 9mm it is a 115 grain JHP and 115 Grain FMJ, the 40 S&W gets 165 Grain, the 44 Mag gets factory specials ( I reload 180 grain Specials in a Mag case), the 45 get 230 grain factory and plated lead for practice. The 380 is the only one I carry different ammo in than the practice. Oh and the 38 Special is 125 grain for the house but shoot 130 gran FMJ for plinking and steel so I can practice as often as I can.
I think the practice is what is going to save my life than what ammo I carry. Being able to draw and hit a threat is going to be more valuable.

MikeP · « **Reply #78 on:** July 19, 2011, 01:18:07 AM »

I hand-load my SP101 with hand-made 200 grain cast lead.
Its velocity is relatively slow compared with modern loadings.
Its technology is relatively old compared with today's complex advanced bullet designs.
I'm sitting here wondering how I would be subjected to extra penalities for using these old-school handloads compared with using the latest nuclear-tipped commercial explosive rounds available to cops and crooks alike on the open market?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #79 on:** July 19, 2011, 02:04:22 AM »

If the guy lived and had damage he would have to live with you might find yourself victom because there were better rounds aval. and you chose an old style bullet that caused more suffering . We live in a sue happy country remember and any BS flys .

Spirithawk · « **Reply #80 on:** July 19, 2011, 01:44:44 PM »

When asked why I carry a particular firearm, or load, I simply answer, " Because I can't carry a Ma Deuce!"

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #81 on:** July 19, 2011, 08:06:17 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on July 19, 2011, 01:44:44 PM

When asked why I carry a particular firearm, or load, I simply answer, " Because I can't carry a Ma Deuce!"

I used to half joke around.
If they have a knife I want a pistol.
If they have a pistol I want a shotgun.
If they have a shotgun I want a rifle and to be 150 yards away.
If they have a rifle I want an M1 Abrams tank!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #82 on:** July 20, 2011, 02:29:07 AM »

the bottom line is some are smart enough to look at what has happened to others before them and draw on their experinces/plight and protect themselves others are smarter than the rest and have to learn the hard way .

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #83 on:** July 20, 2011, 04:45:57 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on July 20, 2011, 02:29:07 AM

the bottom line is some are smart enough to look at what has happened to others before them and draw on their experinces/plight and protect themselves others are smarter than the rest and have to learn the hard way .

Oh yea the old adage of
A dumb man does makes the same mistakes over and over
a Smart man learns from his mistakes
and a wise man learns from others mistakes.