A cure for crimp-jumping at hand !?!

[Terbltim]

Hey Gang,
I told Veral I wanted to post this and he gave a very polite version of “I dare ya” so here goes.
If you like to shoot heavy cast bullets in big-bore revolvers like the, 45 Colt, 454 Casull or the 475 Linebaugh, (like I do,) you may have occasionally had to fight the phenomenon of the bullets jumping, walking or creeping out of their crimps under recoil. This can be bad enough to jam a revolver which might become a serious matter, especially if you really needed that shot to fire!
While not such a problem with jacketed bullets, they’re not immune to creeping either.
All the big-bore revolvers can suffer from this and suffice it to say it is very annoying!

The real culprit is the roll-crimp, (the most common technique for making the crimp on our loads.) The roll-crimp pushes the case rearward as it turns the case mouth inwards towards the bullet. This rearward push often causes the case to bulge a little somewhere behind the case-mouth. To see it you may need a magnifying glass. Sometimes you can feel it and calipers will usually detect it. The result is an imperfect crimp and a significant loss of the grip that the case wall had on the bullet. Many folks don’t know that the grip of the case wall is doing a lot of the work of holding the bullet in place. That bulge forces the crimp to do more of the work, something it is incapable of doing by itself.

The companies of Lee Precision and Redding understand this and both have made dies in attempts to solve this problem. Redding with their Profile Crimp Die and Lee with their Factory Crimp Die. They both fall short of being a real cure for the same reason…they still use a typical roll crimp action. In my experience Redding’s die is better but they both have other issues that would take a separate essay to fully explain.

Enter Ranch Dog Outdoors with their custom-made Lee Factory Crimp Dies.
Ranch-Dog has gotten Lee Precision to make crimp dies for revolvers that apply the crimp via a collet, just like with the Lee Factory Crimp Die for rifles. No more typical roll crimp action which means no bulge behind the crimp-groove or anywhere else on the case!
The Collet-Crimp is applied from the rear so that no bulge is created. What’s more, the collet can be adjusted to give a pretty deep crimp and it will apply that crimp wherever the case-mouth happens to be on the bullet. It does not require a crimp-groove to be present at all. This crimp die will make the crimp-groove as it makes the crimp. This die cannot size the case or the bullet any smaller than they already are, (as both the Lee and Redding dies can do.)  That’s an important detail if you are using diameters a bit larger than industry standards. The Lee Collet-Crimp Die is normally made only for rifles but Ranch-Dog has persuaded Lee to custom-make them for 45 Colt, 44 Mag, 41 Mag and 357 Magnum.

In an email conversation with Ranch Dog I suggested he get those collet-crimp dies made up for the 454 Casull and the 475 Linebaugh and others. He said he would if there was a good chance of selling most of them. Lee insists that he buy them in lots of 100 items or more…no small investment! At a retail price of only $20 each they should  interest anyone that loads for the big magnum revolvers. Hey, it’s a better crimp die for less!

There you have it! If you’d like to see these collet-crimp dies made available for the 454 Casull and other big cartridges, let Ranch Dog know you’re interested. Get your friends to do the same and the day may come when a reliable crimp can be made with a single pass through one die.
Ranch Dog has a whole line of customized Lee products available only on his site and he’s also an authorized distributor of all the Lee products.

The link to the page that shows these modified Factory Crimp Dies is: http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=53_54

But the real message of this post is for everyone to tell Ranch Dog you’d like to buy such dies made for the 454, 475 or whatever your preference is. He needs to hear it from the consumers.

His email is: mail@ranchdogoutdoors.com 
With enough response we might all have a cure for our creeping problems.

BTW, If you ask them, Lee Precision does not admit they make such a thing for handgun cartridges, (even though it is they who make them for Ranch Dog.) If you ask about it they pretend they don’t know what you’re talking about. Maybe they’re not really pretending. (duh)

[Veral]

  This new crimp die is something I haven't used so I can't say that it is or isn't the answer to weak crimps for revolver bullets.  One thing for sure, the price is right, so it should be worth trying if you are having trouble with bullets slipping their crimp.

  I have written previously on thes forum regarding the matter, but will breifly explain my method of obtaining the strongest bullet grip possible.    I'll give two methods.   The most precise seating depth process requires seating the bullet with the crimp die adjusted so it doesn't crimp during seating, and so that seating places the end of the case in alignment with the crimp groove.   A second pass through the die is done with the crimp die screwed in at least one turn past where the crimp would be turned in, and with the seating punch backed off so it doesn't contact the bullet.   The crimp is then applied with a careful feel on the press handle.  When you feel the crimp turn in, and bottom lightly,  lift the lever and take the cartridge out.

  The second method is to seat bullets with the crimp die screwed in deep as outlined above, but apply just enough pressure to close the crimp.    This method doesn't hold OAL as precise as the above if cases aren't trimmed precisely, which I have never done with revolver ammo..

  In my experiance, which is limited to 44 magnum with bullet weights to 400 grains, bullets jumping the crimp have never been a problem with the above methods.  This because it eliminates brass being bulged below the crimp from too much crimp pressure.   If one is using a progressive loader,  the second method will of coarse not work, but the first will, with a second crimp operation.

  This new Lee crimp die will also require a second crimp operation.   --  I do have some question about it making a strong enough crimp for heavy revolvers if it is used to crimp where there is no crimp groove.   I won't explain my reasons for questioning it, because I don't have experiance with it and my concerns may be entirely unwarranted.

  Please inform us about how it performs if you get one of these.