Author Topic: 7X57 Ackley (Read 4400 times)

DC · « **on:** December 12, 2010, 07:45:55 AM »

I just put a 7x57 Ackley on layaway. It has a beautiful flame maple stock and it is built on an old Mauser action. I had a 7x57 Mauser sporter once and
have regretted selling it for 35 years. While this isn't quite the same, it is better. I had a friend that had the Ackley Improved and had great success both hunting and punching paper. Using light bullets, he was great on long range varmits and other small but distant critters.

As I am sure you all know, finding loads for the 7x57 Ackley are hard to find and I would love any help, thoughts on the round, rifle and loads you
may have.

shot1 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2010, 01:36:29 PM »

Which Mauser action is this rifle built on. If it is not a 98 action then I would not have my worst enemy shoot it. The 93 and 95 Mauser that were made in 7X57 are not built to handle the pressures that you can load the regular 7X57 to much less the 7X57AI. If it is a 98 Mauser action then you are in business. You can about equal the 280 Remington with it. As you know the AIs are wildcats and each rifle is a different critter unto itself. I would start close to top 7X57 loads and go up a half grain of powder at a time watching for pressure signs. It has been my experience that you will find your best accuracy about 1 grain below a max load. The 4350 and 4895 powders work really well.

DC · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2010, 02:14:10 PM »

I am not sure which action it is built on but will find out tomorrow. How do you tell the difference between the three?

shot1 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2010, 03:56:53 AM »

The easiest way is to check if the bolt cocks on the closing it will be a 93 or 95 unless someone has converted them to cock on opening. The 98 is a cock on the opening of the bolt. The 98 has a larger front ring than the 93/95 and will have a round hole on the left side of the front ring for gas escape if a case blows. The 98 will have a lug on the bolt mid way back that locks just in front of the back ring of the action. Do not let anybody try to tell that the 93/95 action will be OK. Even if they have shot one in these high pressure calibers. They will stretch and your locking lugs will peen and it could let go on the next shot and take your head off. You did not say how much money you are putting into this rifle. If it is $450 or more I would suggest you get you a Savage with the accu-trigger or the new T/C Venture. They are quality rifles for not a whole bunch of money.

DC · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2010, 10:32:50 AM »

Well I called the shop and was told that it indeed has a vent hole and that the action was made in Sweden.

shot1 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2010, 02:33:37 PM »

If a gun shop can't tell you what action the gun is built on it must not be much of a gun shop. I have never seen a model 98 Mauser that was built in Sweden. The Swedes used model 96 Mauser small ring actions on their rifles. They do not have a vent hole on the left side of the action though. The 96 Mauser action is built for the same pressures 45,000 CUP as the 93 and 95 Mauser actions. Before I bought that rifle I would find someone local that knew what a Mauser 98 action looked like and take them and let them look at this rifle.

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2010, 03:09:07 PM »

shot1: Husquavarna of Sweden made the 96 action as the Model 38 in 6.5 and also made the Model 98 in 30-06, 8mm and I believe one of the 9mm loadings, maybe a 9.3. They didn't call it the Model 98 they called it the Model 46. There were many 98s made in 7x57 and the Swedes could easily have made them too or it could be a Swede 98 that has been rebarreled; either way its a Swedish Mauser in a very desireable caliber.

I have two Swedish bolt actions, both by Husquavarna. One is a sporterized M38 in 6.5 and the other is a factory 98 sporter in 8mm. I like the 6.5 but I like the 8mm a bunch more. It is smooth and easy to handle.

shot1 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:31:52 AM »

I have never seen myself a 98 Mauser action size made in Sweden. They sure could have made some. I have a safe full of 96 and 38 Swedes in 6.5X55. I was just trying to help DC not make an unsafe purchase. Yes the 7X57AI is a great caliber but not in a small ring Mauser that is not built to handle the pressure. I have seen throughout my life a good number of small ring Mausers with high pressure caliber barrels on them and most have a stretched frame or peened bolt lugs and the person was just trying to unload it on an un-educated person. I have seen a good number of these rifles that have blown up also.

drdougrx · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2010, 04:48:35 AM »

delete

shot1 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2010, 12:30:39 PM »

That looks like a model 98 action as far as I can tell from the upright pictures but what does this have to do with the price of cotton in this discussion?

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2010, 02:03:48 PM »

The model 96 Swede is strong enough to chamber the 06 as well as the 9.3x63 as chambered so from the factory .
If it can not handle the 7x57, then you got to be loading well over spec.
The spanish 1916 was chambered in the 7MM then afterward rechambered in 308 . They do not have the metal the swede has and they held for the 7MM chambering

People think the 96 is loaded in the 318 dia 8MM while the 98 was drilled to 323 dia . Since the 323 bullet loaded in the .318 bore the result was not good as it caused over pressure .Well the Model 88 is the one with the 318 bore and not up to the srength.

How ever the 96 action as from Sweden are of very fine steel and about the only Negative is the lack of a safe vent to excape gas should a case come apart . Where the 98 protects the shooter more .
Many Model 38 's which was a WW2 shortened Model of the 96 were rechambered in the 338/08 cartridge now federals 338 F which is loaded to a lot more than the 7MM .

drdougrx · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:04:49 PM »

Evidently none Mr. Shot1

shot1 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2010, 02:50:54 AM »

The original loadings for the 93,95, & 96 Mausers in 7X57, 6.5X55 and even later when the Spanish re-barreled the 1916 model 95 pattern action to 7.62 CETME (not 308 Winchester) all the loadings were kept below 45,000 CUP which the actions were designed to handle. You can take any caliber and load it down to keep it under that pressure. When you start going above the pressure that these actions are designed to handle then you start treading on thin ice. Yes the 96 Swede action does have better metal in them but I have seen a number of them that have the same stretching of the action and peening of the locking lugs at the 93 & 95 actions when people start loading even the 6.5X55 round up to the 50 to 55,000 CUP loadings. I have seen a couple that have blown the front ring off the rifle and was present at the range when on of these instances happened. Lucky was the fellow because he did not get a scratch.

Some of the first German Model 98 rifles did have the .318 bore. I have seen them. My friend had a factory Mauser built sporting rifle on the 98 action that his uncle brought back from WWII that had the .318 bore. It had double set triggers and two leaf back express sights that flipped up. One for 100 meters and the other for 200 meters. It had a ivory bead front sight.

The OP is talking about a rifle that he is going to purchase that is chambered in 7X57 Ackley Improved. My concern is for HIS SAFETY. That is a very high pressure round when loaded to it's potential. It is not a round that should be shot in a rifle that is built on any Mauser action before the model 98. He ask the shop that has the rifle and they told him the action was made in Sweden. I personally do not know of any model 98 actions that were made in Sweden. That is where the talk of the model 96 action came from and all the other stuff has been off subject. I wish everyone well and merry Christmas. I am done with this discussion.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2010, 05:36:59 AM »

The swede was chambered in the 9.3 x62 as well as the 'o6 .

The 96 was chambered in older models like the 95 by other countries that did not have the strengh of the 96 Swede .
So again the 7X57 was loaded too to 46oo Cup .So what would the improved version be loaded to ? Then with the inproved case there would be less bolt thrust .

I say the swede if sound to begin with and checked over by a quailfyed smith would be a less of a concern in 7MM improved than one from another country with questionable metal.
And if you loaded it from the start to 7MM Mag levels from the start - you deserve to have you head off, since it was only used for a hat rack.
Just use some common sense

DC · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2010, 01:24:15 PM »

I went back and took a good look at the rifle. The action is a Mauser 98 for sure by HVA Model 4000, (Husquvarna), made well in to the 20th century.
It has a flame maple stock, 22 inch med. sporter barrel, (actually appears a little beefer and is stamped 7x57 Ackley in white deep lettering. The action
is stamped in deep white lettering on the left side with HVA and the other pertinent data. It has a trigger on it that when you put your finger on it, you better be ready to shoot. I am guessing two pounds. I am going to experiment with lighter bullets with the thought of making this an all around rifle with larger varmits, (coyotes etc.) it's diet. With the Improved chamber I should be able to shoot anything from mild 7x57 loads to whizzin varmit loads at 3,200 fps or better.
I will be paying $465 out the door. I will send pictures when I get them...

DC · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2010, 01:35:43 PM »

Here are a couple of pics of the rifle.

DC · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2010, 04:48:22 PM »

And another.

DC · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2010, 05:50:50 PM »

I did some more homework for anyone interested. Husqvarna made Mauser actions from 1893 up until the mid 50's along with complete rifles.
The 96' action as they called it was produced into 1944 and was used by the Swedish military on sniper rifles until the 1980's. The 96 has been
chambered for belted magnums as well as a host of other cartridges with no known failures. It was said by someone earlier that HVA used superior
steel in the construction of the action which was true.
After 44' they purchased FN 98 actions for their rifles as well as making their own. They made their own until about 1966 and included chamberings in thier own rifles up to 338 Norma Magnum. The rifle that I am buying is one of those. It has the vent hole on the left side of the forward ring and the large mid bolt lug which makes it unmistabable a 90 action. Interestingly, HVA made that lug larger than the FN lug and the forward lug is one piece rather than split. It is considered one of the stongest Mauser actions ever made by any manufacturer and is prized by collectors and custom smiths.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2010, 05:53:33 PM »

Good Job!!!
Now you don't need to worry about having the 96.

Somewhere down the road you could make up a nice custom using an action like it . You know you have a strong reciever and know some history on these fine rifles .

Enjoy it now.
Happy

drdougrx · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2010, 02:43:58 AM »

Good job! Let us know if you tweak it some more!

shot1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2010, 03:06:22 AM »

I am glad to hear that you have a good safe rifle that should do you well. The 7X57AI is a great round. One thing that will help you that I have found out working with the AI rounds. Purchase new (never fired) cases and load up a middle or the road load of the parent case to fire form you cases. Then when you reload these cases only part size the case if you have only a FL sizing die. You do this by smoking the neck of a case with a match or candle and set up the sizing die with it about 25 thousands clearance between it and the shell holder when the ram is raised. Run the lubed case up into it and out and you can see how much of the neck was sized by the mark left. Screw the die down a little until it only sizes the neck without touching the shoulder. Try this case in your rifle chamber. If the bolt closes easy you are in business. If you feel some resistance you may have to bump the shoulder back just a touch. After a few firings you will eventually have to bump the shoulder back a little any way. This will help give you very accurate loads and help your cases last a long time. Good luck and good shooting.

dklabs · « **Reply #21 on:** January 02, 2011, 04:24:41 PM »

dc, just picked up on the 7x57 ackley, I had one about 20 years ago that a friend of mine custom built. He had a lot of problems with the compressed powder loads and extreme pressures but not with most of the other loads. The compressed load with 4350 put a bulge right past the chamber and he had to have it re-barreled. I purchased it from him and killed several whitetail deer with it. I later had it re-barreled to a 270 and sold the dies about 5 years ago. Recently, I was going through a lot of extra brass I have and I found about 80 fire formed cases for the 7x57 Ackley. If you would like them, let me know and can trade for some brass I need. If you are interested contact me at dklabs@yahoo.com. Later, dklabs

Brithunter · « **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2011, 11:45:03 PM »

Ahhhh is not one of the benefits of the Improved case less back thrust on the breech locking arrangement?

Also as far as I am aware Husqvarna never made any M98 actions on the M96/38's they brought all the M98's in to build upon. The only Husqvarna rifle I have is a Model 46 of 1935 vintage in 9.3x57 and yes that's a small ring 96/38 action the M98's were the Model 146 and they were available in the more potent 9.3x62 chambering.

DC · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2011, 05:03:44 AM »

If you go back to the post with pictures of the rifle, you will see that it is a large ring 98. The rifle never started it's life as a military piece and was
manufactured in the late late 40's or early 1950's. HVA as the action is stamped produced rifles until the late 50's or early 60's if memory serves.
Most of those if not all were sporting rifles which included chamberings upto the 338 Mag from the factory. Steel quality, even in the 96's was superb
by anyones measure, making them one of the safer older actions every produced. They were used in many different calibers with much higher pressures than the old 7x57 produced quite successfully.
If you look at my action, it is identical to any FN 98 action, Winchester etc.
From everything I have read about all of P.O. Ackley's wild cats, improved case life, more efficient powder burn and as you point out reduced back thrust on the breech / bolt locks. My theory is that with a 40 degree shoulder, gas expansion is allowed to move more against the shoulder and the front of the
chamber, reducing rearward thrust. I really don't know why P.O. did what he did, but it sure works.
I have a Ruger #1 in 218 Mashburn Bee which is very much superior to the 218 Bee and is very simular to an Ackley Wildcat in shoulder angle.

lucky guy · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2011, 07:24:15 AM »

Quote from: shot1 on December 16, 2010, 03:06:22 AM

I am glad to hear that you have a good safe rifle that should do you well. The 7X57AI is a great round. One thing that will help you that I have found out working with the AI rounds. Purchase new (never fired) cases and load up a middle or the road load of the parent case to fire form you cases. Then when you reload these cases only part size the case if you have only a FL sizing die. You do this by smoking the neck of a case with a match or candle and set up the sizing die with it about 25 thousands clearance between it and the shell holder when the ram is raised. Run the lubed case up into it and out and you can see how much of the neck was sized by the mark left. Screw the die down a little until it only sizes the neck without touching the shoulder. Try this case in your rifle chamber. If the bolt closes easy you are in business. If you feel some resistance you may have to bump the shoulder back just a touch. After a few firings you will eventually have to bump the shoulder back a little any way. This will help give you very accurate loads and help your cases last a long time. Good luck and good shooting.

I anneal mine around the shoulder/neck after fireforming too. Stand them up in a half inch of water, turnd the lights down and heat the neck of one or two at a time until they get a dull glow, then tip em over with a pencil into the water.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2011, 08:26:36 AM »

My loads for my 7x57 with a standard chamber are listed below:

With the Ackley Improved chamber you should be able to exceed my loads by a bit. The powders used may be of interest.

1908 DWM Mauser Douglas Barrel 7X57 barrel 26 inches long.

At 100 yards for 3 shots:

145 grain speer xx grains H380 group size .406 velocity 2709 FPS.
145 grain speer xx grains W785 group size .750 velocity 2880 FPS.
145 grain speer xx grains W785 group size . 862 velocity 2939 FPS Compressed load
145 grain speer xx grains H4831 group size .419 velocity 2776 FPs.
145 grain speer xx grains N204 not shot for group velocity 3037 FPS.
154 grain Hornady xx grains W785 group size .763 velocity 2923 FPS.

Most accurate loads in both was H380 which just happens to the the best powder in my .308 Winchester

Also here are some of my .257 Roberts Ackley Improved loads, Santa Barbara 98 Action rockwell tested at R43.
This is a modern steel, not case hardened actioned 1035-1045 steel like the military 98's. This is for a 22 inch Shaw barrel, chambered and fitted by Shaw. This is the same action used on the Parker-Hale rifles.

100 grain speer xx grains N204 Velocity 3281.
100 grain speer xx grains H380 Velocity 3251. This is a maximum load for H380.
90 grain Barnes xx grains H380 Velocity 3328.
100 grain speer xx grains H4895 Velocity 3078.
100 grain speer xx grains IMR4350 Velocity 3064.

I had no problem getting 2900-3000 FPS with the 145 grain Speer in a standard 7x57 chambering, and over 2900 with the 154 grain Hornady which was an awesome deer killer. But this is with a 26" medium heavy douglas barrel with a very smooth bore.

WSM264 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 16, 2011, 06:23:34 PM »

I'm still not sure why the 7x57 works in a 95 Mauser but the 7x57 AI is not safe. Last time I checked the AI was not factory loaded by anybody. Is Nosler now loading this??
If you are rolling your own then you can control the pressures in the AI, making it perfectly safe in a 95 Mauser. At 40-46K the small ring is safe with a .473" boltface. In the AI version more pressure is going to be felt by the walls rather than back thrust. If you are still at approx 44K, with more pressure on the chamber walls, then there is less pressure on the locking lugs. This would make the AI version safer than the standard version in the 95 Mauser.
If you want 280 or 7 mag performance - buy a 280 or 7 mag! Don't try to make a 7x57 into something that it is not.

Congrats on your purchase. It will be a gentle shooter with good killing power. Did dies come with the rifle? I just found a used set of Reddings on another site for $35. Someday I will have a 7x57 AI in my safe too!

Ethan · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2011, 04:37:53 AM »

Ah man I jealous I love Oakley cartridges. I want a 280 Oakley in a Encore barrel in a bad kind of way