Author Topic: History question related to 1870's model cannon  (Read 473 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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History question related to 1870's model cannon
« on: July 08, 2011, 04:33:37 AM »
The details underlying this question are on the Company of Military Historians forum, but the only question I have has to do with USN ship armament ca. 1875. 
 
"Did any USN ships carry broadside-type 15-inch guns ca. 1875."
 
Why do I ask?  The 50-lb., 1/10 scale model features a Marsilly carriage, which is NOT used in a monitor, and prior to studying this model, I assumed the only shipboard use for the XV-inch shell guns was aboard Monitor-type vessels.  The existance of this antique model, probably government-made or contracted, means the Navy must have intended this configuration for use as a broadside gun for non-monitor-type ships.  The Navy had exactly 20 of the "pattern of 1870" XV-inch guns cast at Ft. Pitt foundry in 1871-2. 
 
Again details are on the other forum but the large model cannon almost certainly represents the Navy Bureau of Ordnance XV-inch Shell Gun, (pattern of 1870.)  I put "pattern of 1870" in parens because I don't think the Navy ever used that terminology, but I have to separate the unique pattern from previous versions. 
 
Olmstead did something similar, "THE BIG GUNS" has a good writeup on the various versions of the XV-inch shell gun.  Unfortunately on pp. 92-93 the drawings are repeated on both pages, so the one that should have appeared on pp. 92, the "short" early Dahlgren XV-inch, ca. 1862, isn't in the book at all.
 
If anyone is really "into" this and has access to a drawing of the "pattern of 1870," I'd love to see it.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: History question related to 1870's model cannon
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 06:53:01 AM »
cannonmn,
My copy of "The Big Guns" came with a loose 'Errata' page that lists eight corrections, and it has the proper replacement illustration for the "XV-inch Dahlgren Short Cannon of 42,000 pounds."
 
 
 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: History question related to 1870's model cannon
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 08:11:00 AM »
Tx for the info on the errata package, never heard of it.  I've just sent an email to a friend who works for the publisher and should be able to get me that stuff.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: History question related to 1870's model cannon
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 09:35:33 AM »
Let me know if your friend can't get the errata sheet.
 
Here's a gbo link to photos of your model.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,138697.0.html
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: History question related to 1870's model cannon
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 09:44:52 AM »
Thanks.
 
I got this reply from a friend who sent my question to an "expert."
 
"Most but not all USN Civil War monitors carried at least one x 15-in Dahlgren shell gun. The only non-monitor armed with these guns was the casemated ironclad ram Dundenburg which was sold to France at the end of the war."
 
So now I'm a-wonderin' if'n all 20 of the 1870-pattern XV-inchers were made to fill some foreign requirement?  I'll look up when Dundenburg went to France just so I have that date; if really right at the end of the ACW then it had nothing to do with the pattern of 1870.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: History question related to 1870's model cannon
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2011, 05:05:17 PM »
I updated the CMH thread with an interesting book related to this question-has some ineresting drawings.  I learned from another book that ten of the guns went to New York and ten to Phila.

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Re: History question related to 1870's model cannon
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 08:23:57 AM »
Another update; found the Navy annual reports which show the justification given to Congress for ordering the guns and two ships for which they were intended, details on the CMH forum.  But there are still some open questions.

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Re: History question related to 1870's model cannon
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2011, 05:58:30 PM »
Final update:  Posted copies of "Record of Naval Guns" showing where all 20 of the guns were at all times.  Three actually made it onto ships, but only one of those would have been a broadside or pivot mounting as opposed to being in a turret.  The ten that went to Phila. show no final disposition, maybe they're buried somewhere!