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Author Topic: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?  (Read 1113 times)

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Offline tacotime

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Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« on: July 11, 2011, 06:22:34 AM »
Just taking a reading here - seems like I read that cast and jacketed bullets should not be alternated in the same barrel without a careful cleaning in between them.  Correct?
 
Is it more critical to remove the lead before jacketed bullets fired, or remove the copper before cast bullets fired?
 
Any comments about using copper solvent?
 
Thanks!
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Offline res45

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 10:24:44 AM »
I only have one handgun that get just a small amount of lead in the bore after firing a couple hundred rds. it's a new gun and the bore needs a little breaking in to smooth it out.  I always clean the lead out before shooting jacketed bullets it only take a few passes with a bore brush and some Ed's Red bore cleaner to get it out.

I very rarely now days find myself shooting jacketed bullets in my rifles and handguns but if I do I clean the bore to remove any copper fouling before shooting cast lead bullets.  The copper fouling will strip lead from the bullet as it passes over the rifling,this can also cause defects to your cast bullets especially the plain base bullets.  These defects can cause your bullet to skid and be exploited by the high pressure gasses at it's base and cause gas cutting which will burn off the lube and lead your bore.

I make my own copper bore cleaner using 4 parts ACE Hardware 10% janitors strength ammonia and 1 part water,it works just like the commercial copper bore cleaner but only cost about $3 to make a quart.  Use it the same way you would any copper bore cleaner.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 10:36:16 AM »
If every thing is in good condition and loads are good in the gun in most cases there should be light if any fouling. If your bbl collects fouling then clenning may be needed more. If your loads leave excessive fouling then again more cleaning or different loads. Then also a 30 carbine needs cleaning to remove copper rings in the forcing cone and some guns that shoot two different length rounds need cleaning . So the ansewer I would give is maybe . BTW I use ammonia out the bottle no mixing. But to be fair some say its bad to do so.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 10:57:01 AM »
I just shoot both without doing anything, but I've only been doing it since the 1960s.....
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 11:08:45 AM »
fantastic ! I wish I had never had a bbl. that built up lead or copper .
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Offline mjyeagle

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2011, 06:54:22 PM »
i have shot both without cleaning if the cast bullet is the right size and the proper lube you should never have to clean your barrel i have a couple that i have not cleaned the bore in thousands of rounds i am sure i will be called crazy for this but a gas check bullet will remove copper fouling if done properly i dont shoot much jacketed anymore too expensive and i can make a better one for next to nothing
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Offline ratdog

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 01:16:24 AM »
never had a problem shooting both ether way.might effect accuracy never got that technical.
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Offline tacotime

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 04:25:21 AM »
Thanks.  I've certainly mixed the bullets in revolvers, but not rifles until now.
 
Seems like the issue was shooting on top of copper fouling.  Not sure why that would cause a new issue though.
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Offline Bob J

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 05:35:04 AM »
Mostly shoot my own cast and make sure that any gun that has shot much jacketed is cleaned of any copper before switching over to lead....  For that I have had good success with KG12

http://www.eabco.com/KG12Copper.html

For those very few times I have to remove significant lead I use a 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar.....   Plug the barrel and let it sit for a minute or two and then flush....  If you try this be sure to wear gloves and not get it on you....  Lead acetate is very easily absorbed through the skin....  Also don't let it sit more than a minute or two since over an extended time it can oxygen pit your barrel....  That having been said, it works very fast and efficiently as long as you take these precautions....
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 05:56:41 AM »
It depends alot on your barrel condition etc. Unless there's a good bit of copper fouling it won't bother much except for maybe ultra fine accuracy shooting to go right to lead.
The other way around maybe not so much, if you've got some leading in the barrel, for the most part the jacketed bullets will only iron the lead into the grooves, making it that much harder to get out later.
 It's a really quick and easy thing to just run a patch wet with pure spirits of turpentine on a jag thru the barrel. If there's any lead in there that patch will let you know about it on the first pass..
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 11:30:38 AM »
Quote from: SHOOTALL on July 11, 2011, 11:08:45 AM
fantastic ! I wish I had never had a bbl. that built up lead or copper .

I don't shoot cast in my rifles much but I've never had a handgun that leaded enough to be concerned about. Mostly I've shot S&W and TC and didn't bother cleaning between the two bullet types.

I've heard a LOT of complaints about leading with Ruger guns but since I've really never shot them a lot other than rimfires I haven't really experienced it. I have a new BH in .45 Colt and tomorrow will pick up a Lipsey's Bisley in .44 Special. I don't have any plans to shoot jacketed in either so I sure hope they don't lead much. I guess I'll find out.

I've owned several Uberti's and shot only swaged or cast in them and had no leading problems.
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Offline tacotime

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 12:24:32 PM »
Graybeard, I' honored...   :D     Feels like the time I called S&W with a question and got Roy Jinks himself on the phone.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2011, 07:41:32 AM »
I had several S&W handguns that leaded the bbl . I would use a Lee lead removal tool to get it out . The screen would come out filled with lead. The bullets were commerical loaded lead round nose . It may very well have been the bullets not the gun but never the less there was alot of lead in the bbls. Why did I shoot them ? because a friend would give me a box or two a week . The S&W guns were a mods 28 ,13 and 30 . A colt trooper 2 did about the same . In all cases the leading was apperant to the naked eye.
 As for Rugers Never saw a real problem there , my bullet provider was gone by the time I got a Ruger. So most of the lead bullets were factory hard cast bullets I loaded .
I would offer that any new bbl will need a break in period. Maybe jacketed bullets are good here . I even see people putting some type rubbing compound on lead bullets to "lap" the bbl they say.
 I would say any good quality gun should come with a good bbl. but I had a Springfield Arm. 1911 in 9mm that looked like the bbl had conventional rifling with micro grove rifling on the lands , it was a poor shooter .
I suggest you check your gun to see how it behaves with the bullets you send down the pipe.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2011, 07:42:37 AM »
sorry not a S&W 30 but 36 ! ::)
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Offline tacotime

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Re: Cast and Jacketed in the same barrel?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2011, 10:51:27 AM »
I had a 629 and 625 using bulk cast from the same maker and I guess these were soft, because they both had noticeable lead at the forcing cone, even with mild target loads. I then blame the bullets for those.  I think my remover was Lewis, no solvent.
 
I ran about 15 Oregon Trail 350's in the Ruger 3 at mild velocities and saw no leading so far. The bore looks clean, but it's hard to see if any copper is in there inside.
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