New Ruger rifle

[tat438]

Does anyone own one of the new Ruger 77/357's? I just saw this this morning and I am very interested in how they handle/shoot. These weigh 5 1/2 pounds with iron sights.
 I do most of my hog/deer hunting on the ground stalking in thick brush with iron sights. I have used a 700 Rem. and a 336 as well as a handi rifle stalking. I like my handi rifle best because it is so short, but I would like to have a quicker follow up shot.
 
  I have been kind of looking for a small light weight bolt rifle that chambered a 7.62x39 or something similar but nothing under a .30 cal. I have heard the .357 really performs with a longer barrel. I read somewhere that they are right at or just above a 30-30 in performance.
 
  Any other short/lightweight bolt rifle suggestions?
 
  Here is a link
 
http://www.ruger.com/products/rotaryMagazine77357/models.html

[mannyrock]

 
  Tat,
 
     I am a fan of the .357 mag, but you will need to do some additional research.  The .357 mag out of a rifle barrel is not anywhere close to a  .30-30.   I think that with an ordinary 158 grain bullet, in a normal.357 factory load, you are only getting about 1,200 foot pounds of power at the muzzle, and that drops very quickly to about 750 foot pounds at 100 yards.   If I remember correctly, the .30-30 has about 1,600 foot pounds at the muzzle, and about 1,400 foot pounds at 100 yards.   So, the .357 mag out of a rifle has only a little more than half of the power of the .30-30. 
 
     You have to remember that the .357 magnum is a pistol round, whereas the .30-30 was the first  modern high-powered rifle round.
 
   Now, all of that having been said, I think that either Buffalo Bore, or Garrett, offer super loaded .357 magnum rounds, for use only in modern Marlin rifles or modern single shot rifles, that will give you power that "approaches" the .30-30.  You can go to their websites, and you can see all of the specifications for these.  These rounds are very very expensive, and if I remember correctly, they get you to about 90% of the power of the .30-30, at least for the first 100 yards or so.  After that, the .357 bullets slows down alot faster that the .30 caliber bullet, so they shed energy much faster.
 
   The rounds sold by Buffalo Bore and Garrett are proprietary (they aren't going to tell you how to make them), and they employ the use of compressed powder charges (so I doubt you could make them even if  you knew how.)
 
   Core-bon makes (or use to make) .357 mag "hunting loads", that have a 180 grain bullet, and a somewhat more powerful powder charge than a regular factory load.  These are nowhere near as powerful as the loads by the other companies, but they are cheaper and they will work OK on deer but only out to 100 yards.  And you have to avoid taking any kind of shoulder shot (too much bone to penetrate), and shoot behind the shoulder for a lung shot or heart shot.
 
   The .357 Mag out of a rifle is a nice gun, out to 100 yards, but you have to realize that you don't have a .30-30, which is a true 200 yard deer rifle and much more powerful.
 
Best Regards,
 
Mannyrock 
 
 
 
 

[Lloyd Smale]

no doubt the 3030 is a bit more powerful but the gap is smaller then you think. Its no great feat to push a 158 to 1800 out of a 357 rifle. Now compare that to a 3030 that shoots a 150 and out of a 18-20 inch barrel factory ammo is going to give you about 2000 fps. The 30 cal bullet with its better sectional density is going to carry a bit more out at a 100 and farther but id guess most guys buying 357 rifles are buying them figuring there use is as a 50 yard hunting gun and to that range no deer would ever know the differnce in which hit him. Personaly i dont see a use for a 357 bolt gun but thats just me. If im going to buy a 357 rifle its going to be a lever gun. Much handier to carry, more firepower and just looks cooler. 

[tat438]

no doubt the 3030 is a bit more powerful but the gap is smaller then you think. Its no great feat to push a 158 to 1800 out of a 357 rifle. Now compare that to a 3030 that shoots a 150 and out of a 18-20 inch barrel factory ammo is going to give you about 2000 fps. The 30 cal bullet with its better sectional density is going to carry a bit more out at a 100 and farther but id guess most guys buying 357 rifles are buying them figuring there use is as a 50 yard hunting gun and to that range no deer would ever know the differnce in which hit him. Personaly i dont see a use for a 357 bolt gun but thats just me. If im going to buy a 357 rifle its going to be a lever gun. Much handier to carry, more firepower and just looks cooler.

 Lloyd,
 
  You are right about there only being a marginal difference, I did quite a bit of research last night. I do like a levergun as well, but my 336 is quite heavy (7lbs). The appeal of this rifle is the 5 1/2 lb. weight and the size. When I am hunting in thick brush on my acreage, I can only think of one or two areas where I would be shooting over 40 yards and a max of 50.
 
  There is only a 1 1/2 lb difference from this Ruger and a 336, but when you are stalking a couple hours it really makes a difference.

[Lloyd Smale]

the 357 and 44 mag and 45 colt marlins are built on the 94 action not the 336 and are substantialy lighter. A 357 even comes with a slighly shorter 18 inch barrel which would make it lighter yet. Id bet one would come in easily at 5.5 lbs.

[hoghunting]

 My Marlin 1894 in 357 is significantly lighter than a 336 and easy to carry through brush. I use that rifle when walking through thick brush searching for hogs. The 158 gr JFP has taken many hogs at ranges of 15 - 75 yds, with the majority in the 15 - 25 yd range.

[BBF]

Didn't Ruger reintroduce that Bolt Action carbine in .44Rem  Mag?

[GatCat]

If the Ruger has a rotary magazine, which I imagine it does, before you buy, give some thought as to how long a cartridge overall length it will accomodate. I think alot of folks will suggest the 180 gr. bullets for big stuff. To me, it those rounds will not work in a Ruger magazine, it would be a deal-breaker. I suppose that IF it was close, a person could handload using a somewhat shorter length case, but to me that is a bit of a stopgap measure. Federal makes a 180 gr. "castcore" round,with a hardened all lead bullet, I would use them as a guide-line.
Mark

[jlwilliams]

  I love the cartridge, and I love bolt actions.  That said, I think Ruger came close but missed with this one.  First, it has a really slow twist.  Something like 1/16 IIRC.  That would limit you to lighter projectiles, and that gives up some of the gain you would get with shooting the 357 through a longer barrel.  Slow twist and the length of the magazine means no big, long projos.  Basicaly, your stuck with pistol loads.  The other big downside I see is the $700 price tag.  That's a bit steep.  Maybe my eyes haven't adjusted for inflation but that sure looks like a $400 gun to me.
 
 
  I've been loading and shooting a bit of 357 lately and have been looking around for a repeating rifle to feed my boolits to.  I'm leaning toward a lever action for all the reasons mentioned.  Those, and the availability of used guns in a better price range.
 
  I was really excited when I first heard about the 77/357, but I don't think I'm saving for one.

[mannyrock]

 
OK, I'm gonna go out on a limb and voice some opinions.
 
   If you are trying to buy the new bolt action Ruger in .357, and "turn it into" a .30-30, then I don't think you are gonna be real happy with it.  As mentioned, you may have problems with that rotary magazine with heavier bullets, as well as extraction problems with the bolt.  You are also going to be fooling with powder charges that are at the upper end of the chart.
 
   Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to buy a used bolt action in .358 Winchester, have the barrel bobbed to 20 inches, and then use your handloading skills to just down-load the rounds to the power of a .30-30?
 
  Or, why this hypnotic attraction to the .357 caliber at all?   If you want a light, close range, powerful bolt carbine in the .30-30 class, wouldn't it be much much easier to just increase the caliber by 9/100ths of an inch, and buy a new or used Ruger bolt action in .44 mag?  Then you would not need to fool with handloading at all.  Or, you could easilly download those rounds to the .44 special range.
 
  Don't run out to buy the Ruger bolt in .357 if your real goal is to have a good, close range, bolt action rifle in the .30-30 class.  You can do a heck of a lot better, for far less money.
 
Just my thoughts.
 
Mannyrock
 
   

[Hodr]

If you like your handi, think about a 357 Handi rifle reamed to 357 max.  While this is not a 30-30 it is sure a lot more than a 357 mag.  I have mine set up with a red dot sight and a 18" barrell.  34" overall after stock cut.  I have the same in 308, 45-70, and 20 guage.  I can not comment on 357 max and deer, but I know it works on Texas hog at least out to 70 yds (Buffalo Bore 125 gr).
 
Hodr

[tat438]

OK, I'm gonna go out on a limb and voice some opinions.
 
   If you are trying to buy the new bolt action Ruger in .357, and "turn it into" a .30-30, then I don't think you are gonna be real happy with it.  As mentioned, you may have problems with that rotary magazine with heavier bullets, as well as extraction problems with the bolt.  You are also going to be fooling with powder charges that are at the upper end of the chart.
 Mannyrock
 
 

Mannyrock,
 
I never mentioned doing any handloading or turning a .357 into a 30-30. just mentioned that out of the 18" barrel the .357 was close to, and in some instances more than the 30-30. The weight of the rifle was a factor as well.
 
  I got my information from this article.
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/chris-dumm/lever-action-ballistics-30-30-vs-357-magnum/
 
 
 
   

[mannyrock]

 
 
   Fair enough.  Use the Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo on deer, and keep your range to 100 yards, and I'm sure it will be fine.  It's a nice looking rifle as well.
 
Mannyrock

[jlwilliams]

   
  Or, why this hypnotic attraction to the .357 caliber at all?
 
   
 

  Darned good question.  I seem to be under it's spell lately.  I just like the round.  Easy to load, fun to shoot.  Good stuff.
 
  As an aside, I kind of don't get when people load a round to compare with another.  Guys who load 45 to nearly 44mag, loading whatever to be like 30-30.  I find I get 30-30 like performance out of a 30-30 fairly consistently  .  I understand the Op isn't trying for that, but the topic does come up.