Author Topic: .454 with heavy bullets (Read 606 times)

Txredneck · « **on:** December 22, 2003, 10:20:43 AM »

Hi everyone, I haven't been around for a while, but I'm getting back to my handgun hunting roots.
I'm trying to work up a load in my .454 casull loading 360 gr. gas check bullets from cast performance. So far my results have been so-so. I'm trying WW296 and H110 which I'm told are the same thing. I'll try another powder if it will get me improved groups, but I'm just not sure which ones to try. With H110, I'm getting 8" groups at 50 yards using 23.5 grains. That's not good enough for me. The gun is a SRH with a 9.5" barrell, open sights from a rest. I have gotten better results with 325 gr. bullets, but I really want to make the 360 grainers work if possible. Anybody got any suggestions as to loads or powders to try?
Any and all input is appreciated.
Txredneck (Dave)

Questor · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22, 2003, 11:34:20 AM »

I wonder if the bullets are so long that they are not stabilizing properly with that barrel. I would try 260 and 300 grain bullets (for which the 454 was designed) and see how they do. It'll cost you a box or two of bullets, but it will probably be worth it. The powder you're using is THE powder for that cartridge, so I don't suspect it.

I'm assuming you're using iron sights and shooting from a bench. I'd expect 2" to 4" groups at 50 yards, given my shooting ability with magnum handguns and iron sights.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** December 22, 2003, 12:23:29 PM »

Yes W296 and H110 are the same powder. They are the correct powder to be using also. You can try others in a similar burn rate range but I've found nothing better regardless of bullet weight. Can't speak for how well your SRH will stabilize those long bullets but my RB454 does fine with them. Dunno if the twist rates are the same on these two guns or not.

Only you know the answer but any time we're talking iron sight groups and especially beyond 25 yards the shooter's ability comes into play. Ask yourself what is realistic for you to expect to be shooting at that range with iron sights and that level of recoil? Once upon a time when I could see the sights better I was capable of shooting 2" groups and occasionally better at that range IF the gun was. Now I can't see the sights that well and there is no way I can. For me with iron sights I consider 4" to 5" about as good as I can see to place the bullets even if the gun in a machine rest would shoot 1/2" groups. That's why I've placed a 50 yard limit on my deer hunting with iron sights and generally want them well under that. Old age and failing vision catches up to us all I guess.

GB

reallybigfoot · « **Reply #3 on:** December 22, 2003, 03:52:48 PM »

In my 7.5 inch SRH, I shoot 405 gr GC bullets with 17 grains of LilGun. On a good day from a rest I get 4 inch groups at 100 yards.

Smokem · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2003, 01:47:46 AM »

I am looking for a 300 gr load that will get around 1200-1300fps. Looking for something with a little more smack than a 44 mag that will get me to about 100 yds. Once I get my reloading stuff from Santa I can't wait to start making and trying different loads. :lol: I have another question for the experts. I want to get a lead bullet sizer die for the 454 but I don't know which to get .451 or .452?

Questor · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2003, 02:00:37 AM »

Smokem: unless you're casting your own bullets, or shooting an old gun with an oversize or undersize bore. .452 is the standard. New guns follow this specification closely.

Txredneck · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2003, 03:05:06 AM »

Not to claim that I'm a great shot, but with 325 gr. gc bullets, I can do 2.5" consistently at 50 yds, and around 4" at 100 yds. I feel sure that with these 360 gr bullets, I can come close to that. My greatest concern is, with the shortage of reloading data available, what is my max powder charge. The recoil hasn't been a problem, so I don't think that is the cause. I understand that folks don't want to go around saying," Yeah, load it on up to 30 grains, it'll be safe." So if anyone knows where I can find some data for this bullet and powder combination, or your personal preferences in your guns. I'm a pretty cautious person, but not scared to load up to the max as long as I work my way up slowly myself, and not just take someone elses recipe and start at the top.
I also know that some guns just aren't going to shoot every bullet well. I'm just not ready to give up on these yet.
Thanks for all of the responses so far.
Txredneck

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2003, 06:00:51 AM »

The bullet maker should be able to provide you with loading data. I think Beartooth has data for bullets that heavy on their site. Seems I recall someone saying awhile back they did. I'm not at my computer so don't have the URL for you but search for Beartooth Bullets and you should find them.

GB

Txredneck · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2003, 05:04:28 PM »

Thanks a lot for the information, guys. I'll keep pluggin' away and see what happens.
Txredneck

reallybigfoot · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2003, 06:06:46 PM »

From Hodgdon's Annual Manual

360 GR CPB LFN GC
H4227 21.0 1205 24.0 1406
H110 21.0 1265 24.0 1447
Lil'Gun 20.0 1330 23.0 1477

Smokem · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2003, 01:29:26 AM »

What is better for making light recoiling loads for the 454 casull.
Heavy weight bullet (over 300 grains)with light powder charge?
Light weight bullet (under 300 grains)with light powder charge?
Should velocity be high or low? What should I be looking for in the manuals that would give me an indication as to a good starting point for both a mild mannered and hard hitting load.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2003, 02:47:11 AM »

Smokem, generally the easiest way to get lighter recoil is to start with a lighter bullet, but if there isn't a sugnificant difference in the bullet weights, then you'll have to go to a lighter charge, or different powder.

Smokem · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2003, 04:08:11 AM »

Thanks for the info. I am trying to establish a starting point for target loads and hunting loads.

Jim L. · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2003, 05:36:18 AM »

Hi txredneck, That LBT 360 is of the WLN design and while not needing to be driven to the max like the WFN it does prefer somewhere in between the LFN and WFN for best performance in my testing. I cast the same bullet but in a PB version. I am not telling you to add more powder since its not my gun but my 454s prefer about 1.5gr more of W296 and when they start going across the clock at 1400fps then the groups will tighten up. That bullet will cut a ragged hole at 35yds from the bench when you find its sweet spot. You need to add some Data books to your bench. Check out the hodgdon annual manual. Have fun with your bigbore.
Jim

Selmer · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2004, 08:46:37 AM »

You guys probably don't want to hear from me on this issue cause I'm using an Encore for my .454. I'm getting great results from 25 gr. H110 under a 360 gr. cast and 24 gr. of H110 under a 370 gr. cast, not to mention my 320 gr. loads, 300 gr. loads, and my plinker 255 gr. load. If you're interested, I'll send you info. I'm getting 1" groups at 50 yds. with all and 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds. with most, but that's also with a 4x scope.
Selmer