Can't seem to dial in my 45-70

[tacotime]

I seem to be flopping around with tuning my Ruger #3 in 45-70 using the 350 grain Oregon Trail cast.  Looking for a nice low to medium load, maybe around 1,350 or 1,400 fps.  Just wanting under 2 inches at 100 yds, nothing special.
 
I-4198 with 31 at 1405, showed some promise but wide, 32 and 33 worse.
I-4895 with 44 at 1412, not impressive.
H-4895 with 39 at 1420, maybe 2nd best to the 4198 above.
SR4759 with 28 at 1541, worst of all, surprisingly.
Unique with 13 at 1140, seemed ok but no paper target.
 
Any ideas?

[Spencer, Carey]

Only one thing left to do......SELL ME YOUR #3!!!!!    Different primers, or seating depths? Cast instead of jacketed, or vice versa? Sights/scopebase tight? Good luck,and if not refer to the first idea!

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest SR4759 powder; start at 20 gr and work up to your 1400 fps.  Use a 3/4 gr dacron filler (filler not wad) over the powder.
You might try the same with the 4198; except start at 23 gr and work up to 1400 fps.
 
Larry Gibson

[Nobade]

Use bullets at least .461" and see if that doesn't help. Most #3 barrels are on the big side.

[tacotime]

That was the first I heard about some #3 barrels being big.
 
I have never slugged a barrel but maybe this one needs it.  Is that done with a special slug, or a standard cast bullet? Is there a guide on slugging somewhere online?
 
Coincidently, at the range I went to mark the target after a few rounds and there laying beside the backstop was a fired 350 grain Oregon Trail cast bullet.  It was not deformed.  It was fired about 1,500 fps. The backstop made of telephone poles and dirt, but now that I think of it, it was probably the first round fired while zeroing the scope that did not hit the target anywhere.  Probably hit the dirt ground in front and bounced off the backstop.  It was scuffed on one side in a twisted angle I assume from hitting the dirt while spinning.  The other side showed what seemed to be good rifling marks.
 
So I thought, can I drive a plain cast bullet up the lubed barrel with a wood rod and examine it?  I watched a video on slugging.  Do I need a certain slug other than a bullet?
 
 

[stimpylu32]

That was the first I heard about some #3 barrels being big.
 
I have never slugged a barrel but maybe this one needs it.  Is that done with a special slug, or a standard cast bullet? Is there a guide on slugging somewhere online?

Coincidently, at the range I went to mark the target after a few rounds and there laying beside the backstop was a fired 350 grain Oregon Trail cast bullet.  It was not deformed.  It was fired about 1,500 fps. The backstop made of telephone poles and dirt, but now that I think of it, it was probably the first round fired while zeroing the scope that did not hit the target anywhere.  Probably hit the dirt ground in front and bounced off the backstop.  It was scuffed on one side in a twisted angle I assume from hitting the dirt while spinning.  The other side showed what seemed to be good rifling marks.
 
So I thought, can I drive a plain cast bullet down the barrel with a wood rod and examine it?

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,131280.msg1098488081.html#msg1098488081
 
Try this . 
 
stimpy

[tacotime]

Good info, thanks!

[woods]

     I had alot of problems with my 45-70 acuracy wise till I ordered new starline brass BINGO! The tension on the bullet needs to be consistant for acuracy.  My two cents.
 
woods

[.22-5-40]

Hello, tacotime.  Are you sure you have cleaned out all of the jacketed bullet fouling from bore?  You might try IMR TrailBoss powder for mild target loads.  Just a thought..How hard are these bullets..I have found they can be too hard for lighter target loads..also, are these pre-lubed?  Is this also a hard lube.  I have gone to a softer lube for my singleshots..B.W.-anhyd. lanolin-castor oil, with no leading.

[mauser98us]

Accurate 5744 and make sure boolit are cast i to 2 thousands over diameter.

[tacotime]

Thanks.  I've been wanting to try the 5744 but it's always sold out at my shop.  I'll keep looking.
 
I don't know about the hardness of these.  Anyone?  Oregon Trail 350.  They have two bands of lube. I have not seen any leading, and one round went just over 1700 fps.  I didn't see any copper to begin with but did a fair cleaning anyway with Hoppes copper solvent anyway and found no blue color coming out.
 
Maybe a combination of issues. 
 
I just tested 3031 in new FL sized RP cases with a slight crimp from 45-49 grains and results were poor, 8 to 10 inch groups at 100.  Suspecting a forearm issue, fired 3 factory rounds then pulled off the forearm and fired three more.  Shots without showed a slight improvement, but not radical, and still about 3.5 inch groups. But better than my loads so far, though slow at only 1192 avg. (Rem says 1330). By contrast I fired 3 rounds of 350 Rem from a M77 into one inch few minutes later. So I assume I'm not the problem.
 
I sanded out the forearm barrel channel a bit and will try again this weekend.  Before, the forearm kind of snapped in place and I could not slide a dollar bill between it and the barrel.  Now it just moves into place but is still solid. The barrel band was removed prior to all this.

[.22-5-40]

Hello, tacotime..just a thought..have you tried jacketed bullet loads in this rifle?  If so, how do they shoot?  I use this as a benchmark to work for with my cast-bullet loads.

[DennisB]

Just curious, do you still have that forearm band in place?  I WAS going to pull mine off when I first got it many years ago, thinking that it may be an accuracy issue.  Left it on, and found that the darn thing likes anything (300HPs, 405 cast, 325 cast) I shoot in it, so long as IMR3031 is pushing it.  I had a No 3 in the meantime (375Win) that the previous owner had removed the band and rounded the end of the forearm.  That one had problems similar to yours.  Changing loads, tweeking the forearm, nothing seemed to help so I found it a new home with someone with more patience than me.  It was the only No 3 (or No 1) I've had that wasn't a good shooter.

[Lloyd Smale]

first is your gun may just not like that bullet period and your not going to find a load. Problem you have is your using boughten bullets so you dont have much control over then things that matter like size and alloy lube ect. Its pretty tough to buy one bullet and expect your gun to be a tack driver with it. Ive had a couple ruger 4570s and they like bullets sized large. I usually size to 461 and they like hard alloyed bullets and for the most part you need a gas check to reallly get any accuracy. Best thing i can recomend to you is to start saving for a casting pot, sizer and a couple molds.

[tacotime]

All true.  The 350 cast at .459 may just not be good for this rifle.
 
The barrel band is gone, as it is from two other #3 guns I have shot and they shot well, though these 350 cast bullets were not used.  So hopefully that band is not the difference. 
 
Hopefully, sanding the forearm away from the barrel will help.  I'll see this Saturday.
 
I shot the factory 405 in there and it was better but not great, maybe 3.5 inches.
 
Saw some load data that is different (lower) than the ones I used so far, so I am still working on this little guy.  Really just looking for a mild plinking load, but not as low as 1,000fps and such.
 
Yesterday I finally found some 5744 and I am going to try 28, 29 and 30 grains to start, this weekend.
 
Thanks!