CVA or Traditions?

[coyotejoe]

This is my first post on the inline side, I'm a traditional muzzleloader guy and always will be but now I have a special use for an inline for some testing. I'm on a really, really tight budget. I just got a new Cabelas flyer of some special deals and close outs. I'm debating between the CVA Wolf or the Traditions Buck Stalker, both .50 calibers. Which would be better?
 I can't use sabots and I hear the Wolf has a very flimsy ramrod which might not be able to seat a full bore conical, but I hear the Buck Stalker is nearly as bad. Having never even looked at a break action ML, how do they get a ramrod past the frame hinge pin?

[mechanic]

I have the Wolf, and it has a collapsible ramrod.  You remove it and screw out the end to length.  Other than that it is accurate and reliable.  I can maintain 1" groups with sabots, and 2" with my cast bullets at 50yds.  There are replaceable rods available, but I'm still using the factory rod.  I just made a wood starter about 10" long and finish with the rod.
 
Ben

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

CVA has MUCH better customer service than traditions.  Traditions has come a good way but lack customer service greatly.  We have 2 wolf's and they shoot well under 1" @ 100 yards with the 250gr Powerbelt Aerolites. Going to be playing with sabots in a week or 2.

[mechanic]

In my post I listed the wrong yardage, it should have been 100 yds.  The thing I liked about this gun, was the first time I shot it, I used the factory sights.  Fired one at 50yds, it was about 3/4 inch high and centered.  I moved to 100 and shot a 2" group with open sights.  I really can't see that well, so that was a surprise, and gave me great confidence in this gun.
 
It looked odd to me at first, but after firing it, I found it "fits".
 
Ben

[coyotejoe]

Thanks for the replies and yes, the Wolf is rather funny looking, the Traditions has smoother lines. I'd like to handle them in stores to see what they feel like but doubt I'll find a great selection here locally.

[shakey]

Sorry I can't offer any help on the CVA/Traditions question but would like to offer food for thought on the collapsible ramrods.


I have been using H&R's version of those for a long time and have always been very wary of them.  The best thing I ever did was to get a heavy-duty, solid aluminum ramrod made.  The ONLY time I use the collapsible rod any more is when making a reload while actually in the woods. And then, I start the bullet with the collapsed rod and ram it as far down as possible before extending the rod to finish the seating.  No problems so far. I am pretty sure I would have broken several of the collapsible rods by now had I not gotten the heavy-duty for every day use.


Shakey

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

CVA's extending ram rod is for CLEANING not for reloading! If you extend it and try to reload, you'll break it.

[coyotejoe]

A muzzleloader without a useable ramrod is what? Certainly not a useful rifle. Sounds like I'll just forget the break open types, so who makes a good bolt action?

[shakey]

Coyote, ...no need to be scared off completely by the collapsible ramrods. They can work OK as long as you recognize their limitations and are willing to make allowances.
 
The reason I got the H&R was for its compactness (not light weight though). I must admit, if I were shopping today, I'd give up a little compactness for a GOOD ramrod.  Haven't been looking at the newer MLs that much but one of the first ones I'd check out would be the TC Omega. TCs have always been good to me.


Good luck with what ever you choose.


Shakey

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

you have to know how to use a ramrod for it to last. Ive seen a lot of people crying over their broken ramrods and its like. well duh! you friggin put your hand all the way at the end and pushed and it bent in half!

Always work with 4 to 6 inches of ramrod at a time.

Never broke a ramrod in 13 years of muzzleloading. Unless you count the 2 i accidentally shot out of the bore     And wood ramrods dont count either as they are all crap LOL.

[coyotejoe]

you're right, there is a bit of an "art" to using a ramrod. However, in more than 50 years of traditional muzzleloading the only wood rod I've ever broken was one I dropped and stepped on. And I favor very tight loads, like a .451" ball and .018" patch in a .45 or .490" ball and up to .032" thick patch in a .50 caliber. Those are loads many would consider "impossibly tight".  What's more, I've often used cheap dowels from the hardware store as ramrods and, although I do prefer straight grain hickory, I've never had a problem with the dowels.
Now as I think about it, I did once own an H&R and remember thinking that silly little telescoping ramrod was a poor joke, but the main reason I got rid of it was the plastic primer holder which burned out in 8 or 10 shots and replacements were available only from H&R.
The thing is that in Colorado we can't use sabots and I know from past experience that the full bore size projectiles like the Great Plains bullets or T/C Maxi balls can be pretty hard to ram down a fouled bore, for that I would never trust anything so flimsy as the rod of that H&R. You just really can't beat a straight grain hickory rod of at least 3/8" diameter, they're not only rigid but much easier to grasp than a slippery metal rod.
It's tricky enough to find a good accurate load with an effective bullet without have to also make allowances for a flimsy ramrod.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

great plains and maxi balls suck to be honest with you. Last on my list of projectiles to use.

[Semisane]

great plains and maxi balls suck to be honest with you.

That's a pretty bold statement bigblock.  Are you talking accuracy, or performance on game, or both?
I haven't used Great Plains since I sold my New Englander.  But it shot them quite well from its 1:48" twist barrel and I've taken a fair number of deer with them.  Never had any complaints about performance.  My brother-in-law's Grayhawk also shoots them quite well.

 

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

performance on game.  When you shoot a 100lb doe in the shoulder with a 385gr HGP and the bullet makes it through only one shoulder at 20 yards, thats sucky performance big time.

maxiballs performed horrible on deer for me as well. 2 solid hits and 2 lost deer.

[Semisane]

Well I guess that explains it.  I would never shoot a 100 lb. doe in the shoulder.

[tacklebury]

I have a Buckstalker I picked up when they first came out and really like it.  Compact, well balanced and shoots ball, conicals and sabot rounds well.  I had (3) 385 gr. Great plains bullets in three inches or a little under using irons at 100 yards.  I did upgrade the sights to TruGlo Front Globe and rear Ghostring, which I really like and helps the rifle come on target quick.    I don't load max.  Typically about 90gr. fffG bp or pyrodex or 80 gr. fffG Triple7.