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Offline Singlebarrel

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Replacement Rifle
« on: September 17, 2011, 01:21:11 PM »
I received my replacement rifle from H &R this week.  A 44 Magnum.  After the third trip back to H & R they decided to replace the original.  I purchased the gun in August of 2009.  Bryan56 kept me posted on the replacement and shipping progress.  I finally got it to the range this morning.

First, the finish on the receiver is different from that of the barrel and the gun does not look like the one I sent back.  Looks a little rough.  I almost gave up on it, but finally got it to shoot.  I had 4 different brands of ammo and started off with three shot groups of each brand, two groups each.  Accuracy was about 4 inches at 50 yards, the limit of my range.  I had previously degreased the gun, cleaned the latching shelf and prepared a leather spacer for the barrel stub to free float the barrel if needed.  I added the leather washer and started the shooting process again.   It was erratic with all ammo.  I removed the washer and added a business card to put some pressure on the fore end.  Again, consistently bad groups.  By this time I had run about 70 plus rounds through it.  I removed the business card, put the forearm back on and decided just to shoot a few more times with the gun in original condition just to document the bad grouping.  To my surprise the next three rounds of HMS went into a one inch group.  The next three rounds of HMS went into a one inch group.  The next three rounds of Winchester went into a one inch group.  The next three rounds of Ultramax went into a one inch group.  The next three three round groups of Hornady Leverevolution went into one inch groups.  Frankly, that is about as well as I can shoot right now, in the middle of modifying my pain management medication.  I have a rifle I can hunt with.  Especially, with the Hornady rounds as that is what I want to hunt with.   The Hornady rounds were definitely the hotter load and shot about three inches lower than the other three brands.  The other three brands shot pretty much to the same point of aim.

It took about 75 rounds for this thing to "shoot in".  Again, one inch at 50 yards for this gun is adequate and I think the gun will do better.  I was wearing thin after a long morning shoot out.  This is my primative weapon season gun and, given the caliber, I doubt I will shoot much past 100 yards with it.  It is also nice that it doesn't appear to be picky about what it shoots.

Thanks Bryan for your help.


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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 03:19:00 PM »
SB,
 
Glad your 44 came around for you.  I bet your shoulder is glad you didn't try to break-in the barrel of a 500 S&W in one range session. ;)   Good luck hunting.
 
BB
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Offline yukondog

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 03:26:31 PM »
Good to hear that you got it shooting right, sometimes I need to stop myself from fixing things that are not broke.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 03:32:09 PM »
It will shoot better with a dirty barrel.  Don't clean the bore.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2011, 10:08:48 AM »
Your next test wont hurt you; just verify that the first shot out of a fouled cold barrel goes where you want it to and get prepared to eat tenderloins  ;D .
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Offline Singlebarrel

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 06:42:02 AM »
Crank, I did try that.  Nasty surprise.  The first shot from a cold barrel missed the six inch bulls eye at 50 yards.  I let it get stone cold and missed it again.  I had to get the barrel hot to get back into the target. I did some more things, tried the leather washer again, tried shooting without the forearm.  Tried business cards under the forearm again to put tension on the barrel. I even cleaned the barrel as a last resort and tried it all again.  There is some kind of fundamental flaw in this rifle.

I have no more patience for a handi-rifle and no more money to burn.  I have run hundreds of rounds of ammo through a 44 Magnum over the past two years trying to get a decent shooter.  Remember, this is rifle number two.  The first was purchased in 2009 and went back to the factory three times.
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 06:59:30 AM »
The two cold shots you fired first were misses but did they group?
 
Reason I ask is your sights are obviously set for after the barrel is hot during a range session.
 
If you set your sights for the cold barrel only, you should be on the money.
 
I have yet to shoot multiple shots with a warm barrel while shooting at game.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 07:01:17 AM »
Sounds like it is time for the H&R Classifieds here on GBO.
Unless........
You want it for hunting, not lots of rounds of range testing or plinking, etc.
For hunting I would -0- it for the cold first shot and know where number two goes, and try that several days in a row to be sure it is going where Im looking, then go hunting.
But really, for you it may not be the right gun and without confidence in your equipment you cant be comfortable.
Yep, time for the 'Classifieds.
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We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 07:02:46 AM »
That first round out of a cold barrel is the only one that counts.  I never shoot more than three shots before setting the gun aside and letting it cool.
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 07:07:14 AM »
In this case, the classifieds are a good thing! ;)
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2011, 07:47:18 AM »
Quote from: Sourdough on September 21, 2011, 07:02:46 AM
That first round out of a cold barrel is the only one that counts.  I never shoot more than three shots before setting the gun aside and letting it cool.
Sourdough is correct.  Zero the rifle for a cold barrel.  Remember the old rhyme: "One for the money, two for the show, three to get ready, and four to go"  In this case all you need is the money round.

Are you sure about the scope and its mount?  Are they tight?  Is the scope a reliable scope?

Remember, Handi's need to be "shot in", especially, if you just mounted a scope. The entire set up has to settle in.  I had a similar problem sighting in a 30-30.  Started on paper at 50 yards, took a few rounds to get it into the circle, moved it to 100 yards, and was way off.  Took a few more shots, all of a sudden it was grouping 1" groups. 

If your not comfortable with it for hunting, I guess it's time to sell it.  Confidence in your equipment is going to to be a big factor in whether you make that shot.  If you decide to sell it in the classifieds.  I'm sure you won't have a problem getting rid of it.  Best of luck.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2011, 09:06:52 AM »
Wouldnt be the first time that a scope was the problem, especially with different rifles, etc. when it is the 'common denominator'.
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
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22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
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45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Singlebarrel

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 12:38:02 PM »
Four shots from a cold barrel, i.e. waiting until the barrel got stone cold between shots, produces a pattern, not a group.  I could live with a consistent first shot.  Nothing wrong with scope or mounts.  It settles down again after the barrel gets hot.  I am no novice at this.


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Offline Singlebarrel

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 12:54:09 PM »
Shot In?  I have run a couple of hundred rounds through this barrel.  Proven Leupold FX-II.  Cannot recall the name of the mounts right off, but they are top draw equipment.  Everything torqued down, loc-tite.  Bad scope or mounts would not start working because the barrel got hot.  Same thing it did in the prior session.

Thanks for the comments, but I am through.  Crank got it right about the confidence issue. If no one wants it locally I will hit the classifieds.

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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 12:57:07 PM »
This barrel sounds like a good project for a reloader.
 
Slugging the bore and using a proper bullet for the bore and this rifle would make someone a nice shooter in my opinion.
 
If you don't reload, I'd definately put it on the classifieds and a least get some of your money back, since you won't recoup what you've spent on ammo.
 
That is unfortunate you couldn't get it to shoot!
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My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 01:04:44 PM »
I, too, am sorry that it hasnt been good to you!; life is too short for aggravation, after a certain point, and it is time to move on. I wish we were close and you could play with a few of mine to see what fun and satisfaction they can be. Hey, the world is full of lemons, Ive heard about much more expensive Ruger No.1s that have been bummers, so it could have been worse.
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Singlebarrel

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Re: Replacement Rifle
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2011, 06:19:10 AM »
I know they can be fun.  I have a 223 barrel fitted to the receiver of one of my 45-70s and it is really a good shooter.

Brian says if I will send it back he will fix it, test fire it and send me the target.  I will certainly take him up on that offer.  He is going above the call of duty on this one.  If H and R had more like him we would be shooting instead of having this conversation.

Again, thanks for all of your comments.  Our primative weapon season opens up here Oct. 22nd.  The handi rifle is one of the few affordable breach loading rifles that qualify for our primative weapon season.  Walmart here and some smaller stores that handle shooting supplies are really cutting back on stocking muzzleloader components.  Everyone is going to the breach loaders for the extra season. 
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